Na'vi Reference Grammar

Started by wm.annis, August 13, 2010, 08:46:50 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tìtstewan

#200
Tse, I approaching this thread carefully just to mention (and remind) the following stuff. ;)






3.2.3.1. For the inclusive first person forms, use separate pronouns, ohe ngengasì (with enclitic
and). In the film we apparently get ohengeyä. (confirmed *click*)





3.3.1. Fì-. This prenoun is for proximal deixis, this. When it is followed by the plural prefix ay+
they contract into fay+, these. But we've seen fìay- from Frommer at least once, oel foru fìaylì'ut
tolìng a krr, kxawm oe harmahängaw
, Jan 26.


3.3.4. Fra-. This prenoun means all, every. When it is followed by the plural prefix ay+ they
contract into fray+.


^See there: Na'vi details from Avatarmeet 2013
Quote from: Ftiafpi on July 27, 2013, 03:06:12 PM
Fì + ay will generally turn into fay+ especially in rapid or casual speech but in formal or precise speech it may be fìay+.

However, fra + ay will always be fray+.





3.4.2. Fì'u and Tsaw in Clause Nominalization. The demonstrative pronoun fì'u and inanimate
pronoun tsaw are used with the attributive particle a to nominalize clauses (§6.18.4). When
the attributive particle follows certain case forms of the pronoun, they contract:

CaseFì'u ContractionTsaw Contraction
Subjectivefwa (< fì'u a)tsawa
Agentivefula (< fì'ul a)tsala (confirmed *click*)
Patientivefuta (< fì'ut a)tsata
Topicalfuria (< fì'uri a)tsaria





4.2.1.1. Can combine freely with nì-? Yes Ordinals & nume
(mentioned by Plumps)





5.1.4.1. Tì- ‹us› creates a gerund. It is fully productive for verb roots and compounds (si-construction
verbs, §5.3.3, cannot be made into a gerund). This is most useful when a simple tì- derivation
already has an established meaning, as in rey live, tìrey life, but tìrusey living. See also
§6.9.2. What about yomtìng? Yomtìtusìng? -> It's yomtusìng. Infixes goes in the second part.
Also see her: Gerund part (Also mentioned by Plumps)





6.8.3.2. Known modal verbs and verbs with modal syntax:11
[...] that footnote
11Other candidates: sto refuse confirmed as modal verb *click*, flä succeed, hawl prepare.




Perhaps some things from the language update:


Negative and Opposite adjectives / adverbs
http://wiki.learnnavi.org/Canon/2013#Negative_and_Opposite_adjectives_.2F_adverbs



The adverb marker nì- and 'e' of a root word
http://wiki.learnnavi.org/Canon/2013#The_adverb_marker_n.C3.AC-_and_.27e.27_of_a_root_word


-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

Tirea Aean

Woo! It's great to see progress and questions being answered! Great work tracking progress! :D

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Tìtstewan on October 19, 2013, 05:51:50 PM
CaseFì'u ContractionTsaw Contraction
Subjectivefwa (< fì'u a)tsawa
Agentivefula (< fì'ul a)tsala (confirmed *click*)
Patientivefuta (< fì'ut a)tsata
Topicalfuria (< fì'uri a)tsaria

Why there are not fura and tsara?
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tìtstewan

Don't ask me, I picked up this from the Horen...

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Kemaweyan on October 19, 2013, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on October 19, 2013, 05:51:50 PM
CaseFì'u ContractionTsaw Contraction
Subjectivefwa (< fì'u a)tsawa
Agentivefula (< fì'ul a)tsala (confirmed *click*)
Patientivefuta (< fì'ut a)tsata
Topicalfuria (< fì'uri a)tsaria

Why there are not fura and tsara?

No one has ever seen those words and they have never been official. Only recently is tsala now officially considered a word.

Kemaweyan

But that's obvious! And we could ask for confirmation...
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Kemaweyan on October 21, 2013, 01:07:31 AM
But that's obvious! And we could ask for confirmation...

as obvious as transitivity of nume? ;D ::) :)

Kemaweyan

So you want to say that there is a possibility that fì'ur + a (and tsar + a) can't become fura and tsara? And we must say, for example, oe tolìng nari fì'ur a ... only? ??? It would be strange... :-\
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tìtstewan

So, I was so free to send a short question about fura / tsara to Pawl. What we need to do: waiting. :)

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

Tirea Aean

Not to say that I don't think fura / tsara is impossible; It's in fact very likely to exist like that. I'm just saying nothing is obvious anymore after what happened with nume. ;D :D

wm.annis

Well, it's been a while. There haven't really been many grammatical revelations in rather a while, so I wasn't updating the published version, and then life intervened. But a gentle prod from Markì got me to make an update. And I will probably be making a few minor modifications over the next month or so, mostly in the form of using Na'viteri sentences for further examples.

Changes:

* More citations
* fìay+ vs. fay+
* fray+ confirmed
* difference between nì- and na/pxel with pronouns
* nì- with ordinals
* animals and po
* in time expressions detail

One thing I'm not sure is necessary any longer is the list of adpositions and their uses. Now that Plumps' magnificent annotated dictionary exists, I'm not sure it makes sense to go over each individual sense of the adpositions in the grammar, as well. But I'll keep that section if people feel the redundancy is useful.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

And like last time, I'll help you with the grammar rewrite if you need it.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Wllìm


wm.annis

Another minor revision. After consultation with Paul, I have removed the list and definitions of the adpositions, which are properly handled by a dictionary. I include links to two dictionaries in the remaining adposition section, and tidied up the entire section somewhat.

* additional examples for some syntax sections
* cleaned up section on -eyä genitives which was very out of date

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Txantsan nìwotx, ma Wm.annis

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Mech

Great new!

Could you point to page or paragraph numbers where you dicuss the new syntax examples?

wm.annis

Quote from: Mech on January 15, 2018, 07:19:40 AMCould you point to page or paragraph numbers where you dicuss the new syntax examples?

I should say that these were just additional examples for things we already knew, but for which I wanted to have more than just a single example. I'm afraid I didn't keep track of them (and my versions need to be checked in somewhere, so trolling through diff logs is a bit overwhelming right now).

wm.annis

Some more minor changes:

* renamed "Punch" section to "Focus" and gave some more examples
* clarified some details of modal word order
* hunted down the different revelations about tsa'u/tsaw/tsa- and simplified that discussion
* added the revelations recently given to Plumps
* as always, some minor style tweaks and clean-up

Vawmataw

#218
After discussion on Discord, Plumps, Kawnu, Tirea and I found out that a passage is missing in the Horen. The rule 5.1.1.2 doesn't mention that nì- is freely productive on adjectives. Here is the source of the rule:

QuoteFinally, some affixes are midway on the productivity scale. The adverb-former nì- is productive when used with adjectives: nìngay 'truly,' nìwin 'fast,' nìsti 'angrily,' nìftue 'easily,' etc. But it's sometimes also used with other parts of speech—nìtut'continually,' nì'eyng 'in response,' nì'awtu'alone'—and these words have to be learned as separate lexical items; you can't take them as patterns on which to base new forms.
http://naviteri.org/2010/07/diminutives-conversational-expressions/

However, it doesn't work for verbs with <us> or <awn> that are adjectives according to an e-mail sent by Pawl:
Quote from: March 22, 2011nì- plus participle:  Regarding whether nìawnomum is the basis for a productive way of using nì-, the answer was an emphatic NO.  He said, however, that the existence of nìawnomum opens the door to the possibility that there are other words in Na'vi that are constructed the same way (i.e., nì-V<awn>ERB), but these need to be explicitly listed in the dictionary, and will not be common.
Fmawn Ta 'Rrta - News IN NA'VI ONLY (Discord)
Traducteur francophone de Kelutral.org, dict-navi et Reykunyu

Vawmataw

I'm wondering if it would be worth to mention that you can add tsun, if not all modal verbs, between si and its companion noun or adjective.
Here's the example:
QuoteSlä 'Rrta ke lu Eyweveng. Ha kempe tsun sivi set?
Source: http://naviteri.org/2016/12/tengkrr-perahem-zisit-amip-as-the-new-year-arrives/
Fmawn Ta 'Rrta - News IN NA'VI ONLY (Discord)
Traducteur francophone de Kelutral.org, dict-navi et Reykunyu