Na'vi Reference Grammar

Started by wm.annis, August 13, 2010, 08:46:50 PM

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Plumps

Quote from: wm.annis on February 07, 2011, 06:11:10 PM
Quote from: Plumps on February 07, 2011, 05:49:38 PMWhat are you getting at? ;) D'you want somebody to start the translation project of the Grammar? :P

Actually, I've been asked for it a few times.  Just this week one of our Polish tsmuktu was thrilled to learn the LaTeX sources were available. :)

I'm all for it! :)
After the dictionary in various languages it's only logical to have the Grammar translated as well.

It's a bit tricky because of the linguistic terminology and will take time but I could try it for the German version...

zineketaye

Quote from: Plumps

It's a bit tricky because of the linguistic terminology and will take time but I could try it for the German version...


You have my full mental support on that  ;)... please do it!

If you prefer more substantial support, like cross-reading or something else, please feel free to ask.
Projektprozente:
1 (aU): 5,0; 2: 0,0; 3: 26,3 (31,0; 26,3; 32,4)

'Oma Tirea

Quote
          5.2. Reduplication
5.2.1. Iteration. Can letrrtrr and krro krro be generalized?

To confuse things more: tam tam.  I strongly suspect there's no regular pattern to this....

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Plumps

Minor error on page 46, § 6.17.5. – shouldn't it be  Oe ke tsun stivawm fayfnelì'ut(i) luke fwa sngä'i tsngivawvìk. ??

wm.annis

Quote from: Plumps on February 10, 2011, 11:38:17 AM
Minor error on page 46, § 6.17.5. – shouldn't it be  Oe ke tsun stivawm fayfnelì'ut(i) luke fwa sngä'i tsngivawvìk. ??

It should.  It will be in the next release.  Irayo.

Eltu Lefngap Makto

It seems that people are using fura as a contraction of fì'ur a.  I gather K. Pawl hasn't used it yet, but do you want to list it under 3.4.2?
'Ivong, Na'vi!

wm.annis

Quote from: Eltu Lefngap Makto on February 17, 2011, 07:09:13 AM
It seems that people are using fura as a contraction of fì'ur a.  I gather K. Pawl hasn't used it yet, but do you want to list it under 3.4.2?

Nope.  :)

Nothing goes into the grammar unless Paul uses or endorses it.  At best, it would be in maroon, but I'd need to see a defensible use of the form first.

Eltu Lefngap Makto

How about this imaginary proverb:

fkol payti rä'ä tìng fura tolaron fkotì.
Do not give water to that which is hunting you.

;)
'Ivong, Na'vi!

Kemaweyan

I think you don't need fkol here, just rä'ä tìng payti. And I think, "hunting you" - it's an animate object, so use fìporu a instead of fura. And "is hunting" - that's imperfective aspect. So I think the sentence "Do not give water to that which is hunting you." in Na'vi should be

  Payti rä'ä tìng fìporu a teraron ngati.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Eltu Lefngap Makto

Quote from: Kemaweyan on February 17, 2011, 10:37:25 AM
I think you don't need fkol here, just rä'ä tìng payti. And I think, "hunting you" - it's an animate object, so use fìporu a instead of fura. And "is hunting" - that's imperfective aspect. So I think the sentence "Do not give water to that which is hunting you." in Na'vi should be

  Payti rä'ä tìng fìporu a teraron ngati.
Irayo ... oooo that makes me think of a possible sentence:
Irayo si fura hawnu oet.
(I) thank what shelters me. (as in a house, a tree, etc.)
'Ivong, Na'vi!

zineketaye

Bah! Excuse me for quoting myself:

Quote from: zineketaye
Quote from: Plumps

It's a bit tricky because of the linguistic terminology and will take time but I could try it for the German version...


You have my full mental support on that  ;)... please do it!

If you prefer more substantial support, like cross-reading or something else, please feel free to ask.

In fact it seems to be the other way around ... I have already "played" with the LaTeX-Sources a bit and it will work  ;D

Anyone who wants to help with the German translation please pm me to avoid double efforts on single items ;)

zineketaye
Projektprozente:
1 (aU): 5,0; 2: 0,0; 3: 26,3 (31,0; 26,3; 32,4)

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Eltu Lefngap Makto on February 17, 2011, 11:15:29 AM
Irayo ... oooo that makes me think of a possible sentence:
Irayo si fura hawnu oet.
(I) thank what shelters me. (as in a house, a tree, etc.)

No. Furia ngal hawnu oet, oe ngaru si irayo. With irayo si dative should be used for receiver of thank. But the reason should be in topical case.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Kemaweyan on February 18, 2011, 09:53:06 AM
No. Furia ngal hawnu oet, oe ngaru si irayo. With irayo si dative should be used for receiver of thank. But the reason should be in topical case.

I think, he doesn't thank a person, instead he thanks a thing that shelters him (a roof or something).
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Eltu Lefngap Makto

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on February 18, 2011, 09:59:35 AM
I think, he doesn't thank a person, instead he thanks a thing that shelters him (a roof or something).
That's what I intended... :)  Also, <eyk> verbs could end up with dative/fura's of inanimate things:
I will make that which I focus on begin.
'Ivong, Na'vi!

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on February 18, 2011, 09:59:35 AM
I think, he doesn't thank a person, instead he thanks a thing that shelters him (a roof or something).

Sorry.. yesterday I saw it and did not answer.. But today did not pay attention :-[

Quote from: Eltu Lefngap Makto on February 18, 2011, 10:13:53 AM
That's what I intended... :)  Also, <eyk> verbs could end up with dative/fura's of inanimate things:
I will make that which I focus on begin.

Only transitive verbs with -eyk- :) Intransitive verbs with -eyk- get -ti:

  Pol oeti steyki.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Eltu Lefngap Makto

Quote from: Kemaweyan on February 18, 2011, 10:21:33 AM
Only transitive verbs with -eyk- :) Intransitive verbs with -eyk- get -ti:

  Pol oeti steyki.

I was thinking of this in the grammar:

Quote6.4.4.2. The causee for the causative of a transitive verb may be in the dative, oel ngaru tseykìye'a tsat I will make you see it
and 5.7 in the Nutshell.
'Ivong, Na'vi!

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Eltu Lefngap Makto on February 18, 2011, 10:34:10 AM
oel ngaru tseykìye'a tsat I will make you see it

It's because <eyk> here is used with transitive verb (i.e. that verb can have a direct object: tsat in this sentence).
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Eltu Lefngap Makto

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on February 18, 2011, 11:07:38 AM
It's because <eyk> here is used with transitive verb (i.e. that verb can have a direct object: tsat in this sentence).
Right!  So if you substitute "that which has no eyes" for "you" in that sentence, you'd have an excuse to use fura.
'Ivong, Na'vi!

wm.annis

A new release today, 1.13, with quite a few changes:


  • better indexing and fuller description in the Clause Nominalization syntax section
  • noted some irregular genitives of nouns
  • fixed case error in 6.17.5
  • fraction forms and syntax with genitive
  • li
  • noun declension with titles and proper noun phrases

Sorry, no *fura.

Carborundum

It seems like tsnì does in fact not cause a verb following it to take the subjunctive, so 6.8.5. and 6.19.7. need updating.
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