Question about "Pawm"

[HTML_Earth]

I couldn't find any info about this.
Do you use accusative or dative on the person who's being asked?

So, "Oel ngati pawm" or "Oel ngaru pawm"?

I'm leaning more towards the dative, but I'm not sure.

[Payä Tìrol]

Looks like a normal verb. If you're asking something, you're using it transitively, so Oel ngati pawm.

[Kemaweyan]

I think this verb is intransitive, so we should use it with dative and topic:

Lì'fyari oe ngaru pawm - I ask you about language.

[wm.annis]

I have wondered about this myself from time to time.  I'll see if I can work this question into the weekend Event.

[Sireayä mokri]

I think it may be transitive, but dative appeals more to me anyway.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

I think this verb is intransitive, so we should use it with dative and topic:

Lì'fyari oe ngaru pawm - I ask you about language.

Except that you (IM, linguistically limited, HO) used it transitively here. You have a clear subject (oe) and a clear object (nga) So, this could be written lì`fyari oel ngati pawm. Interesting use of the topical, though.

[wm.annis]

We just need to ask Frommer.  Different languages handle this sort of situation in various ways, any of which he could pick.

1. double accusative (one of the thing asked, one for the person asked of)
2. accusative of thing, dative of person
3. accusative of person which turns into dative only if you also ask the thing
4. etc.

[Sireayä mokri]

1. double accusative (one of the thing asked, one for the person asked of)

I don't remember same case being used twice in a sentence. Topic would be perfect here, in my opinion.

[wm.annis]

1. double accusative (one of the thing asked, one for the person asked of)

I don't remember same case being used twice in a sentence. Topic would be perfect here, in my opinion.

My point is merely that the world's languages offer many, many options for Frommer to choose from.  The topical carries discourse function that makes me a bit queasy about it here.

[Sireayä mokri]

My point is merely that the world's languages offer many, many options for Frommer to choose from.  The topical carries discourse function that makes me a bit queasy about it here.

What I meant was that I really doubt that Frommer will choose this one. It would just look strange to me...

[wm.annis]

My point is merely that the world's languages offer many, many options for Frommer to choose from.  The topical carries discourse function that makes me a bit queasy about it here.

What I meant was that I really doubt that Frommer will choose this one. It would just look strange to me...

He has surprised us in the past. 

[Kemaweyan]

But how can we distinguish question topic and person to whom this question asked, if both words are in the same case?

  Oel pawm ngati poti - "I ask you about him" or "I ask him about you"?

[Sireayä mokri]

But how can we distinguish question topic and person to whom this question asked, if both of those are in the same case?

  Oel pawm ngati poti - "I ask you about him" or "I ask him about you"?

If only fixed word order...

[Kemaweyan]

I'm talking about the Na'vi

[Sireayä mokri]

Yeah, but we already got some sort of fixed word order when using word slu.

[Kemaweyan]

Yeah, but we already got some sort of fixed word order when using word slu.

I'm not sure.. We sent this question in "The package"

[Sireayä mokri]

Well, this could be an exception Anyways, I like topic+dative construction.

[Kemaweyan]

Anyways, I like topic+dative construction.

And I too

[wm.annis]

We had some more open time to ask questions of Frommer Saturday afternoon, and I brought up this very question.  I'll be creating a giant wiki page for everything new we learned this weekend, but I thought it'd be useful to post this here.

With verbs of speaking, the person you're speaking to goes into the dative.  That includes pawm.  You can use the accusative of thing,

  oel poru polawm fì'ut I asked him this

However, Paul made it clear that the topical for the thing asked is also just fine.  One other subtlety is that direct speech in san... sìk... does not count as any sort of object.  So the dative remains, but the subject of the verb is no longer agentive:

  oe poru polawm san ngenga lu pesu sìk I asked him, "who are you?"

For "ask about" I personally would probably prefer teri in many situations, but I didn't remember to ask about that in particular.  Plenty of other people had questions for him, too. 

[Sireayä mokri]

Thanks for sharing it, ma wm.annis. I assume pawn is now officially transitive.