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Fraw

Started by Kemaweyan, July 09, 2016, 07:07:16 PM

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Kemaweyan

I thought, since tsa'u could become tsaw, is it possible that fra'u becomes fraw too? We already have the word frawzo derived from fra'u + zo and fra'u becomes fraw there. So is it possible to use fraw in sentences by itself? :-\
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Vawmataw

#1
Syllable structure correctness
Logic
Usage ?

I think it's correct. I think it would be OK to use it and maybe fra'u is already contracted orally (hypothesis).
However, am I right?

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Kemaweyan

Quote from: Vawmataw on July 09, 2016, 07:49:06 PM
Syllable structure correctness
Logic
Usage ?

I think it's correct. I think it would be OK to use it and maybe fra'u is already contracted orally (hypothesis).
However, am I right?

I think it should be completely similar to tsaw. And it's easier to pronounce, I think :)

Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tìtstewan

Hey, I like it and it looks logical for me. We should ask Pawl if we can use fraw too. :)


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Kemaweyan

Also if hypothetically fraw is correct, could there be fral, frat, frar, frari? :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Vawmataw

#5
Probably too. Who can e-mail Karyu Pawl?
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Tanri

Personally, I don't like this idea.
The short forms of tsa'u have one single purpose: to make noun-connected subordinate clauses as short and clean as possible:

Palulukan a tsati tsole'a oel trram, lam yehakx oer.

This pronoun - tsa'u/tsaw is unique, because it is used as a replacement of the noun the subordinate clause is connected to. Therefore it's used very often and tends to be shortened as much as possible.
I don't see this kind of motivation for such shortening of another, less frequently used pronoun. Fra'u pronoun does not play an important role in the structure of the main/subordinate clauses.
Also remember the non-standard form of the plural of this demonstrative pronoun (aysa'u/sa'u).

So, as I understand, the pronoun tsa'u and its abbreviated forms is something special and this mechanism should not be freely applied to any other nouns and pronouns.
Tätxawyu akì'ong.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

I'm thinking this question has come up before. But when and where,  I don't remember.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tay'waro

Quote from: Tanri on July 10, 2016, 04:16:03 PM
Personally, I don't like this idea.
The short forms of tsa'u have one single purpose: to make noun-connected subordinate clauses as short and clean as possible:

Palulukan a tsati tsole'a oel trram, lam yehakx oer.

This pronoun - tsa'u/tsaw is unique, because it is used as a replacement of the noun the subordinate clause is connected to. Therefore it's used very often and tends to be shortened as much as possible.
I don't see this kind of motivation for such shortening of another, less frequently used pronoun. Fra'u pronoun does not play an important role in the structure of the main/subordinate clauses.
Also remember the non-standard form of the plural of this demonstrative pronoun (aysa'u/sa'u).

So, as I understand, the pronoun tsa'u and its abbreviated forms is something special and this mechanism should not be freely applied to any other nouns and pronouns.

   You said correctly. I support you completely.

Tìtstewan

Even if Pawl doesn't approve fraw, one could say it as fraw in fast speach. :-\

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Blue Elf

Quote from: Tanri on July 10, 2016, 04:16:03 PM
Personally, I don't like this idea.
The short forms of tsa'u have one single purpose: to make noun-connected subordinate clauses as short and clean as possible:

Palulukan a tsati tsole'a oel trram, lam yehakx oer.

This pronoun - tsa'u/tsaw is unique, because it is used as a replacement of the noun the subordinate clause is connected to. Therefore it's used very often and tends to be shortened as much as possible.
I don't see this kind of motivation for such shortening of another, less frequently used pronoun. Fra'u pronoun does not play an important role in the structure of the main/subordinate clauses.
Also remember the non-standard form of the plural of this demonstrative pronoun (aysa'u/sa'u).

So, as I understand, the pronoun tsa'u and its abbreviated forms is something special and this mechanism should not be freely applied to any other nouns and pronouns.
All this. I understand forms like tsal, tsat, tsar, tsari more like not abbreviations of tsa'ul, tsa'ut, tsa'ur, tsau'ri (forms of "that thing"), but like forms of "it, that" (so tsa here works not like prefix, but like independent or full word). I don't see any wide and reasonable usage of fraw, fral, frat etc.
Contractions of 'u to w can be seen also in
z<us>a'u + krr (comming time) = zusawkrr (future)
and it's just contraction for better pronunciation. IMHO The same is valid for
fra'u + zo (everything is as it should be) = frawzo (all O.K.)
More similar examples probably do not exist.

No need to search for some hidden magic :)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Vawmataw

As of July 31, 2020, this word exists. ;)
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Toliman

Quote from: Vawmataw on August 01, 2020, 09:08:09 AM
As of July 31, 2020, this word exists. ;)
Nìngay, trram karyul Pawl tolìng pumit ayoengur :)