The glottal stop; ', ’ or ʼ?

Started by Carborundum, December 08, 2010, 11:25:20 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Kì'eyawn

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on December 09, 2010, 09:58:44 PM
I prefer ' over `, because many proportional fonts show ` as a very wide character and ' as narrow, and the white space produced by ` looks too much like a word break, it can be quite jarring to read.

Mllte oe.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

'Oma Tirea

Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on December 09, 2010, 08:30:04 PM
I'd ignore the other apostrophe variations, for various reasons.

This is one of them for me:

Quote from: Kì'eyawn on December 09, 2010, 10:56:54 PM
Quote from: omängum fra'uti on December 09, 2010, 09:58:44 PM
I prefer ' over `, because many proportional fonts show ` as a very wide character and ' as narrow, and the white space produced by ` looks too much like a word break, it can be quite jarring to read.

Mllte oe.

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Tsamsiyu92


Muzer

#23
I agree - ` is the most jarring for me; it's awful to read. And (much to my annoyance) I can't type backticks (what programmers call ` ;)) on my phone either, despite it being ASCII.

And I can't search for words with glottal stops in the dictionary either (using Okular), which is very irritating.
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Ikran Ahiyìk

If you can, ' is the best.
Sometimes it will change to ', it is still OK. But the point is don't use the one pointing to the right at once, i.e. 'a'aw, or 'a'aw, not `a'aw.

Actually I think ` is unacceptable... :P
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Plumps

I don't see what the fuss is all about. It's a convention, same as Swedisch uses "..." as quotation marks but German ,,..." and English '...' or "..."
Seeing what the Wiki has to say about that, it's preferred to use ' or '
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe

Typographically speaking, at least I learnt that you wouldn't use ' in e.g. Arial (but always ' ) or fonts that simulate typewriter-like fonts.

As Glottal Stop, Hawai'i uses ' for the 'okina. As I said, it's an orthographical convention.
And low and behold: :P

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#As_a_glottal_stopSeveral fictional languages such as Klingon, D'ni, Mando'a or Na'vi.

Muzer

The fuss is related to the fact that it's nigh-on impossible to search for anything with a glottal stop in it because of all the different potential apostrophes. And the fact that many devices fail to display many of the various apostrophes.
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Plumps

Quote from: Muzer on December 12, 2010, 10:46:05 AM
The fuss is related to the fact that it's nigh-on impossible to search for anything with a glottal stop in it because of all the different potential apostrophes. And the fact that many devices fail to display many of the various apostrophes.
Point taken and even experienced with Taronyu's dictionary 8)
Well, who said, humans couldn't adjust to unfamiliar situations? ;)

Kì’onga Vul

I just discovered today that some apostrophes were actually different characters and not just displayed differently depending on the font!  This happened when I tried to log in five times in a row, each time meticulously checking my password.  In the end, I noticed it was my username that was wrong.  That's what I get for typing my username in Word, then copying it before registering.  I ended up with U+2019!

As far as my opinion on the different options, I dislike ` and like the simple vertical ' the best.  It's easily accessible, and in my mind best represents the function of the glottal stop, often a partition between two vowels.
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.

Txur’Itan

私は太った男だ。


Ikran Ahiyìk

Quote from: Kì'onga Vul on December 15, 2010, 02:10:38 AM
As far as my opinion on the different options, I dislike ` and like the simple vertical ' the best.  It's easily accessible, and in my mind best represents the function of the glottal stop, often a partition between two vowels.
This



But I think 2019 is still fine
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Txur'Itan on December 15, 2010, 03:11:42 AM
The ' have it!

'u'u'a'a'

This is a bit confusing though, as it makes things confusing when you want to use single quotes, like ''awstengyem'. This is one of the reasons I do not like ' for glottal stops.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Txur’Itan

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on December 15, 2010, 03:47:21 PM
Quote from: Txur'Itan on December 15, 2010, 03:11:42 AM
The ' have it!

'u'u'a'a'

This is a bit confusing though, as it makes things confusing when you want to use single quotes, like ''awstengyem'. This is one of the reasons I do not like ' for glottal stops.

That is why I have been using bold tags instead doing 'awstengyem instead of "'awstengyem" or ''awstengyem'.
私は太った男だ。


Kì’onga Vul

Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on December 15, 2010, 06:36:35 AM
But I think 2019 is still fine

Yeah, my problem is just that my keyboard doesn't type it automatically.  I'm not sure about other people's keyboards, though.
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.

omängum fra'uti

Quote from: Txur'Itan on December 15, 2010, 06:01:01 PM
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on December 15, 2010, 03:47:21 PM
Quote from: Txur'Itan on December 15, 2010, 03:11:42 AM
The ' have it!

'u'u'a'a'

This is a bit confusing though, as it makes things confusing when you want to use single quotes, like ''awstengyem'. This is one of the reasons I do not like ' for glottal stops.

That is why I have been using bold tags instead doing 'awstengyem instead of "'awstengyem" or ''awstengyem'.
When you're doing pure Na'vi, there is little need for quotes.  When you're just interjecting, there are other ways to set it apart. (Bold, italics, new line, alternate quotes like «», etc.)  Even if you do put it in quotes, "Tsun nga pivlltxe nìtxan tengkrr kawkrr ke lu tìkin a tsakem sivi."  There may be no perfect solution, but all the upsides and downsides, I think `is the worst option.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

'Oma Tirea

Quote from: Kì'onga Vul on December 15, 2010, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on December 15, 2010, 06:36:35 AM
But I think 2019 is still fine

Yeah, my problem is just that my keyboard doesn't type it automatically.  I'm not sure about other people's keyboards, though.

Not without ALT+0146 ;)

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Kì’onga Vul

Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on December 16, 2010, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Kì'onga Vul on December 15, 2010, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on December 15, 2010, 06:36:35 AM
But I think 2019 is still fine

Yeah, my problem is just that my keyboard doesn't type it automatically.  I'm not sure about other people's keyboards, though.

Not without ALT+0146 ;)



Yes!  Now I don't have to copy my name to log in!
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.