The prophecy of Aslan

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

For those of you who are Narnia fans, I am sure you are aware of the prophecy of Aslan from 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe'. Here is my attempt at translation this prophecy to Na`vi. Keep in mind as you rip this apart that this is poetry, and is heavily idiomatic. I have tried to minimize the idiom in the translation, but I am sure some has made it through the process. Although comments on idiomatic expressions are definitely in order, I am more interested in the basic sentence structure, use of inflections and cases, and the troublesome futa. No attempt whatsoever has been made to make the Na`vi words poetic.

Tìkawng lu eyar sayi krrpe Äslänir zola`u lu tsere`a

krrpe stusawm Poan pam afkew futa ke fpomit lu ke kaw`it

krrpe aysre` apxa Poanil werìntxuti futa wew tìnulkrr lu hasey si

Ulte krrpe nikreit apxa Poanil win `erarip  futa lehapxia soma tìnulkrr lu awnga nìmun

[omängum fra'uti]

First line, why are you using lu there, not once but twice?  The first seems like a shaky literal translation while the second I can't even see what the intent is.  Krrpe is ALWAYS a question, whereas in English "when" isn't necessarily a question.  Eyawr si always seems a bit fishy.  Remember, "si" expressions have a tendency to be idiomatic.  That said, I know a lot of others have used eyawr si, so there's some argument to be made about common usage.  The "comes in sight" is a bit idiomatic and probably shouldn't be literally translated.  In fact, I can't provide a grammar correction there that means anything like that, because really it's a bit nonsensical outside idiomatic usage.

Anyway....  "Tìkawng eyawr sayi krr a Äslänit fkol tsole'a" - Evil corrects when Aslan is seen

Second line...  Same with krrpe, it's always a question.  (Come to think of it, if this isn't in my list of common mistakes, I should add it.)  Stusawm must describe something.  It would be like "Stusawma 'ewll" - hearing plant.  You don't actually have a real verb in the first part, let alone something for that futa to be used with.

For the first part of the second line you could approach it two ways.  One is with "krr a" - "Krr a peyä pamit afkew fkol stolawm, ..." - when his mighty sound is heard.  The other would be with "maw" - "Maw pam afkew peyä, " - After his mighty sound.  This way leaves just one clause on the line, the second one.

The second part (With corrections) would say "Is no peace", which is the opposite of what you mean.  Also, ke usually comes before the verb, and before a noun like fpom it would be kea.

Perhaps...  "Maw pam afkew peyä, ke layu kea tìkeftxo kaw'it." After his mighty sound, there will be no sadness.

Third line, again with krrpe isn't a question.  Not sure why you're putting -ti onto the verb, it's his teeth he's showing.  Not sure adverbs can get tì...  But not sure why you need nulkrr there anyway.  Wewa krr seems like it's good enough, though "krrä tìwew anawm" has a nice poetic ring to it.  Also not sure why you've got lu and si in there, there's no "hasey si".

"Krr a pol aysre'it wolìntxu, krrä tìwew anawm 'ayi'a." - When he shows his teeth, the time of the great cold will end.

Finally on the last line, not sure I like your rendition of shake, but I'll leave that aside and just focus on the grammar there.  Again you'd want krr a rather than krrpe, and 'olärìp rather than er.  But you also want nìwin, because fast isn't describing a noun, it's describing the action, so you want an adverb.  Rather than try to do tìnulkrr which I still don't like, perhaps just "warm days"...

"Ulte krr a nikret pol 'olärìp nìwin, soma trr layu nìmun" When he moves his hair quickly, hot days will be again.

[Lance R. Casey]

"Tìkawng eyawr sayi krr a Äslänit fkol tsole'a" - Evil corrects when Aslan is seen

Or, more explicitly:

Tìkawng slasyu tìmuiä krr a Äslänit fkol tsole'a
Evil will (certainly) become rightness when Aslan is seen

In general, I think the s-tenses would work nicely in a text such as this.

"Krr a pol aysre'it wolìntxu, krrä tìwew anawm 'ayi'a." - When he shows his teeth, the time of the great cold will end.

You've got the genitive placement mixed up: it should be krr tìwewä anawm.

"Ulte krr a nikret pol 'olärìp nìwin, soma trr layu nìmun" When he moves his hair quickly, hot days will be again.

For "days", trr -> srr. Looking at "spring" from a slightly different perspective, one might construct something with 'ong, for example.

[omängum fra'uti]

I would disagree with the asy form.  That says to me that the speaker is the one who will make that come to pass, which is most certainly not the case.

[Lance R. Casey]

I would disagree with the asy form.  That says to me that the speaker is the one who will make that come to pass, which is most certainly not the case.

Not if the subject is not first person. See here.

[omängum fra'uti]

Right, in the first post quoting Frommer, "the det. fut. would indicate the intentions of the speaker, since you can't get into someone elses head".  That does not disagre with my assessment here that it would indicate the speakers intent to make it come to pass.  I'm not sure I see where you're getting that it would mean different.  Its exactly like the "you shall not pass" example, where it indicates the speakers intent to make sure you do not pass.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Right, in the first post quoting Frommer, "the det. fut. would indicate the intentions of the speaker, since you can't get into someone elses head".  That does not disagre with my assessment here that it would indicate the speakers intent to make it come to pass.  I'm not sure I see where you're getting that it would mean different.  Its exactly like the "you shall not pass" example, where it indicates the speakers intent to make sure you do not pass.

I have to agree with it, it seems to me that the s in <asy> is roughly equivalent to "I am determined that". Also, like effectuals, I'd expect the s to always be from the speaker's POV.

If anything other than <ay> I think this should be <ìyev>.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Thanks everyone for your constructive criticism. One one hand, I feel like I should go back to 'hello, how are you' sentences  but I guess this is how you learn. This is one group of likes I will probably use a lot so I really appreciate the discussion.

Omängum (or anyone else): You have seen enough of my writings so far. Is there any one or two basic underlying assumptions I have wrong that cause such massive reworks?

Lance, the way I have Aslan marked up is the way it is commonly pronounced in English. As much as it would be fun to have a Narnian conlang (And C.S. Lewis would probably like the idea), the official language of Narnia is English. (BTW, 'Aslan' is Turkish for 'lion'.) The only other language discussed commonly in the books is the Calormene tongue, which is supposed to be derived from Turkish.

Lastly on 'we will have spring again' vs 'hot times', I am kind of thinking 'nice times' might be better, because 'hot' implies that its 'too hot' (I was trying to create a modifier for hot with hapxi - 'part hot'). I guess we need a word for 'warm' or 'comfortable'. I will have to check the LEP and see if those or similar words were suggested. Of course, other people's suggestions are welcome as well.

Carry on!

[Kì'eyawn]

...Lance, the way I have Aslan marked up is the way it is commonly pronounced in English. As much as it would be fun to have a Narnian conlang (And C.S. Lewis would probably like the idea), the official language of Narnia is English. (BTW, 'Aslan' is Turkish for 'lion'.) The only other language discussed commonly in the books is the Calormene tongue, which is supposed to be derived from Turkish....

Yes, indeed.  Aslan, in Turkish, is pronounced just like that—so the vowel should be a, not ä.  And yes, ma 'eylan, you're right, there's Turkish influence on the Calormene also:  Their god, Tash, takes his name from the Turkish word for "stone."  What Lewis meant by that is for you to judge...

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Yes, indeed.  Aslan, in Turkish, is pronounced just like that—so the vowel should be a, not ä.  And yes, ma 'eylan, you're right, there's Turkish influence on the Calormene also:  Their god, Tash, takes his name from the Turkish word for "stone."  What Lewis meant by that is for you to judge...
[/quote]

The A sound that occurs twice in Aslan is just like the a in cat.  According to the Na`vi vowel table and the pronunciation guide, the Ä sound is the a in cat. Maybe you pronounce it differently wherever it is you are.

As to the derivation of Tash, that is interesting. Perhaps, it because Tash is 'dead as a stone' but how you know from the books that though dead, he is quite alive and animated. In the books, I seem to recall Lewis saying that he is black in color. And Tash is usually accompanied by any combination of a sudden coolness, a 'drabness' coming over a nice  day, or the smell of rotting flesh. In any case, a very nasty creature.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Ma 'eylan, tigermind was saying that in Turkish it is pronounced with an a not ä and wikipedia's page on Turkish orthography backs him up. So, whilst it is normally pronounced äslän, aslan is more accurate (basing it on Turkish).

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Sorry, oeyä tìkawng for not taking the time to fully read and understand Tigermind's post.

I guess that changing my pronunciation of this word to the Turkish pronunciation will raise eyebrows when participating in Narnia-related activities!

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Here is the 'repaired' prophecy. I used nearly all of the suggested changes, and I think its pretty reasonable now.

Tìkawng slayu tìmuiä krr a Aslanit fkol tsole`a (was Tìkawng slìyevu... before the post following this one)

Maw pam afkew Peyä, ke layu kea tìkeftxo kaw'it

krr a Pol aysre`it wolìntxu, krr tìwewä anawm `ayi`a

Ulte krr a nikret Pol `olärip nìwin, 'usonga srr layu nìmun (`usong needed an -a- to point out its adjectival relationship to srr)

Irayo nìtxan ayfo!

[Lance R. Casey]

Two things:

Tìkawng slìyevu tìmuiä krr a Aslanit fkol tsole`a

Why subjunctive? This sounds like a statement of certainty to me, like the other lines.

Ulte krr a nikret Pol `olärip nìwin, 'usong srr layu nìmun

'usonga srr

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Lance,
    I put the <ìyev> in there at kemeoauniaea's suggestion. But in now looking at this closely, I agree with you. I will change this to an <ay>, which kemeoauniaea suggested as the other (weaker) possibility. At the time, I could see a reason why <ìyev> might be a good choice there, but your reasoning wins out. I guess this shows that there are differences in the way we all think about these things, and this is a good thing.
    I also see why the -a- needs to be on `usong. Changes made. Irayo!

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Lance,
    I put the <ìyev> in there at kemeoauniaea's suggestion. But in now looking at this closely, I agree with you. I will change this to an <ay>, which kemeoauniaea suggested as the other (weaker) possibility. At the time, I could see a reason why <ìyev> might be a good choice there, but your reasoning wins out. I guess this shows that there are differences in the way we all think about these things, and this is a good thing.
    I also see why the -a- needs to be on `usong. Changes made. Irayo!

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant that <ay> was probably best, but if you didn't want to use it, <ìyev> would probably have been better than <asy>.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Lance,
    I put the <ìyev> in there at kemeoauniaea's suggestion. But in now looking at this closely, I agree with you. I will change this to an <ay>, which kemeoauniaea suggested as the other (weaker) possibility. At the time, I could see a reason why <ìyev> might be a good choice there, but your reasoning wins out. I guess this shows that there are differences in the way we all think about these things, and this is a good thing.
    I also see why the -a- needs to be on `usong. Changes made. Irayo!

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant that <ay> was probably best, but if you didn't want to use it, <ìyev> would probably have been better than <asy>.

Still, your knowledge of Na`vi amazes me. I'm trying to figure out how to be as good Irayo!

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Practice, that's all it is. I've had quite a lot of it now, I signed up in December and have been active pretty much constantly since.