What To Do with the ASG "Words"

[Kayrìlien]

So I've been thinking, mostly as I was trying to write out a song in Na'vi, that we were presented long ago with quite a few words from the ASG that are not Frommerian and do not follow the established conventions of the language. Does anyone know if we have news from Karyu Pawl regarding these "illegal" words, say, whether or not he uses any of them himself, or if he just considers them to be virtually useless as we all do?

In my opinion, there are a few different ways we could treat them, and many people have done different things with them in the past, but it would be nice to have some sort of group consensus, or at least a couple of opinions as to what you all do with them.

Here are the options that I see:

1) Ignore them. Just pretend that everything in the "Illegal Words" section of the dictionary does not exist, and wait until Dr. Frommer gives us new words for those things.

2) Use them as we would any "real" Na'vi word. Ignore the fact that something like feru m'predu'k looks really stupid and just use it for what it says it means. (Basket, apparently.)

3) Rewrite all of the offending words using correct Na'vi orthography, then use them. Words like omati s'ampta could be rewritten as omati sì'amta, where "sì'amta" is a perfectly acceptable Na'vi word.

4) Ask Dr. Frommer directly what his opinion on the matter is, then go along with that. It's his language, so he should be able to make the decision.

Which of these solutions do you all think is most appropriate? I mean, to be quite honest, it's not dreadfully important, as, for the most part, the words in question are not conversational deal-breakers, but it would be nice to have a definite word for "Blue Flute", for example. (Or the hammock, or the possessions rack.)

Let me know what you think,

Kayrìlien

[kewnya txamew'itan]

I think we should go with 4, but in the meantime follow either 3 (my personal preference) or 1.

[Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì]

I think we should go with 4, but in the meantime follow either 3 (my personal preference) or 1.

I'm going to agree with Kewnya here.

-Txonä Rolyu

[omängum fra'uti]

I'm a big fan of putting my fingers in my ears, closing my eyes, and saying loudly, "Lalalalalalalalalala" when it comes to the ASG words.

[Nyx]

Haha, Omängum Fra'uti put it well

I'd say 4, but since it's not exactly high priority, I'm just fine with ignoring them (1). Between 2 and 3 it seems like both would be wrong either way because what if we do rewrite them and then Frommer comes along with new words for that stuff? Then it's the whole re-learning thing again. But I guess that's ok if they really need to be used.

[Ekirä]

Just looking at the words from the ASG makes me mutter "stupid, stupid, stupid," under my breath. My first reaction is definitely #1. But I think that #4 is the best decision.....Frommer will know what to do about them.

[Kayrìlien]

I'm a big fan of putting my fingers in my ears, closing my eyes, and saying loudly, "Lalalalalalalalalala" when it comes to the ASG words.

HRH! I hadn't even considered this...Option #5: Ignore AND ridicule the terrible abominations.

But yeah, since none of the words are of vital importance, it's not really a pressing issue. As I said, I mostly stumbled across this idea as I was looking to see if we had a word for "flute" and found only the pseudo-Na'vi word for "Blue Flute". I mean, any of us could probably derive a word for this concept, perhaps eana yapamsiyu, "blue air-sound-maker", so binding Dr. Frommer to the halfhearted attempts of others is just plain stupid.

Though I do like the word sì'amta. Perhaps, if I ever write a story of some sort, that'll end up being someone's name. 

Thanks for your input!

Kayrìlien

[Muzer]

Not only do the words make no sense orthologically, but they also make no sense etymologically. Why does "blue flute" not contain the word "ean" or an adjective attributive pre/suffix?

[Ekirä]

Not only do the words make no sense orthologically, but they also make no sense etymologically. Why does "blue flute" not contain the word "ean" or an adjective attributive pre/suffix?

And Nikt'chey? Food wrap?!? I don't see any sign of yom in that....

Oh goody. A place to vent on the ASG words.

[omängum fra'uti]

I don't like how long they are.  Realistically, words for common cultural things like that wouldn't be so long, or maybe they would have a longer name for ceremonies (Such as weaving hammocks) but a shorter every day name.

[Ekirä]

And they just LOVE to lay on the apostrophes. Eywa k'sey nivi'bri'sta? Ulivi mari'tsey mak'dini'to?

They're just trying to make it look cool with a ton of useless apostrophes.

[Kì'eyawn]

I'm a big fan of putting my fingers in my ears, closing my eyes, and saying loudly, "Lalalalalalalalalala" when it comes to the ASG words.

Mllte oe hu omängum fra'uti.  Mllteie nìftxavang.

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

I say go with (1) until (4) happens.

Cuz srsly, teh gaiz taht maid werds must haz been liek; zomg letz put ur katz on teh keybored to makez werds taht katpeeplz wood say. 

[Ekirä]

I say go with (1) until (4) happens.

Cuz srsly, teh gaiz taht maid werds must haz been liek; zomg letz put ur katz on teh keybored to makez werds taht katpeeplz wood say. 

HRH!!! That must have been it!

[Nyx]

Yep, that solves the mystery...

[Taronyu]

I'm a big fan of putting my fingers in my ears, closing my eyes, and saying loudly, "Lalalalalalalalalala" when it comes to the ASG words.

I've done a lot of work with these words. I've thought of ways to throw them out, ways to keep some of them. I've gone through and edited every one to make it legal, even with derivations from Frommer's words. And I've sent these to Frommer. We exchanged a few emails, and he said he'd consider the matter. That was early March.

So now I agree with the above. Lalalalalalalllalalalallalalalalallalalallalalaaaaaaa

§

It seems churlish of me not to over up what I did:

Here are the fauna that need adjusting:

ikranay: [ikRanaj] SG n. forest banshee >>> You'd need to change this. It's too close to Ikran for me to suggest an alternative.
kali'weya: [kaliPwEja] SG n. species of poisonous arachnid >>> kaliweya
lenay'ga: [lEnajPga] SG n. slinger, predatory animal ? >>> lenaynga (perhaps this should be related to the form ivetsir, sling)


Here is a complete list of the words I suggest we keep:

nivi: v. cradle (In many cases, nivi could be derived as us from these words: I suggest discarding this usage, and using ayoeng instead.)
sänivi: n. hammock (This uses more Na'vi like construction patterns, I think, and would illiminate the need for k'sey to be saved)
maskit: v. to reveal
tantsey: v. to give (as a gift)
makta: n. embrace (or, possibly, tìmakta, from makta: v. to embrace)
mirestu: v. to guard
kisey: v. to sleep together
feru: n. basket
ivetsir: n. sling
mllmokx: n. ring
kau'pa: n. bola
mekll: n. pit
säza'ärìp: n. puller, lead (from za'ärìp)
na'la: n. face
niktskey: n. bit of food, morsel
sampta: n. flute
omati: n. blue (suppletive form)  Omatisampta, for the instrument, might work better.
sivil: n. personal belongings rack
txawng: water gourd
takto: n. toy
sumin: n. plate
sehule: v. to sleep alone (perhaps this could be related to kisey, to sleep together, or both could be discarded. Up to you.)
sotsamka: n. pendulum drum
natsey: n. bladder lantern
maktanito: n. loom (from makta v. embrace)
ngo'ek: n. jar

And here are their original entries:

chan'tu gor'ek nuuto: SG n. stone jar ? >>> ngo'ek tskxeyä
chey: SG n. possesions rack derived from P'ah s'ivil chey rack ? >>> sivil
Eywa k'sey nivi'bri'sta: SG hammock, from Eywa cradles everyone ? >>> Eywal nivi frapot
Eywa s'ilivi mas'kit nivi: SG Ewya's wisdom is revealed to all of us ? >>> Eyweyä txantslusamìl molaskit ayoengur

Eywa te' _ tan'sey mak'ta: SG n. ikran queue harness, lit. the love of Eywa's embrace is gifted to ___ >>> tìyawnel Eyweyä makteyä ___-ru tantsey
feru m'predu'k: SG n. basket ? >>> feru
iveh k'nivi s'dir: SG n. baby sling ? >>> prrneneyä ivetsir
m'resh'tuyu: SG n. shield ? >>> mirestuyu (from mirestu)

k'sey nivi: SG n. group sleep  >>> kisey (to sleep together)
malmoks: G n. rings of stone >>> aymllmokx tskxeyä
mas'kit nivi sa'nok: SG mother loom >>> sa'nokä maskit
meresh'ti    cau'pla: SG n. banshee catcher, bola, lit. nothing to see ? >>> kau'pll (or ke'u tsive'a - or better, ke'unìn from "nothing to look at")

mreki u'lito:  SG n. fire pit >>> txepä mekll (from mreki and mì+kll, perhaps?)
na'hla buk'ne: SG n. direhorse lead, lit. face pull ? >>> säza'ärìp na'la
nikt'chey: SG n. small bit of food, packed lunch ? >>> niktskey

nivi: [nivi] SG n. hammock ? >>> sänivi
omati s'ampta: SG n. blue flute >>> omati (suppletion for blue) sampta (flute)
P'ah s'ivil chey: SG n. personal belongings rack ? >>>  sivil

pxtxawng: Cameron n. douchebag ? >>> txawng (water gourd, perhaps?) This is from an interview.
Tsu'shiri t'acto sa: SG n. toy ikran ?  >>> takto
sumin jiit'luy: SG n. leaf plate ? >>> rìk (leaf) sumin (plate)

sumin'sey hulleh: SG sleeping outside of the group >>> sehule
t'riti so jahmka: SG n. pendulum drum ? >>> sotsamka

tmi nat'sey:SG n. bladder lantern, from food here >>> natsey
ulivi mari'tsey mak'dini'to: SG loom, lit. branches of the tree look to each other for strength, or many branches together are strong ? >>> maktanito

[Payoang]

I propose #1.

And of course, the list has grown. I don't remember cooking pots being in the ASG. mesh'kei huru?

[Taronyu]

I propose #1.

And of course, the list has grown. I don't remember cooking pots being in the ASG. mesh'kei huru?

Well...it's in the dictionary now.

Might go add the others...

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Not only do we have these very odd words, but I wonder how much of the culture in the ASG is really correct. I am also finding 'science' that is not correct, or inconsistent with other Pandoran 'science'. So, I vote for (4) with (1) in the meantime. This may not only be a Frommer thing but a Cameron thing.

[Taronyu]

As I've said, I asked his opinion. He's still considering what to do.

For now, there are two options:

1) wait
2) ignore.

Of course, I could remove the words from my document. But I rather like them there. so...