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Started by Skxawng, December 26, 2009, 12:37:45 PM

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Kiliyä

Quote from: Plumps83 on January 18, 2010, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: Carborundum on January 18, 2010, 02:43:09 PM
#4. Oe-ri tswayon kelku-ti
     I(TOP) fly home(ERG)
     Given translation: I flew home.

Again, I think you might want an ergative marker on 'oe' rather than the topical. Also, the sentence should probably have perfective aspect to show that it is finished.

Same with tswon. This form actually makes it: I will fly home. -ti is not *ERG but ACC

Hope that helps :)

Actually, technically, that says "I will fly the home," like "I will drive the car."  You'd want a ne in there, to show home as the destination... Oe-ri tswayon ne kelku.
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Plumps

Quote from: Kiliyä on January 19, 2010, 05:51:14 PM
Quote from: Plumps83 on January 18, 2010, 05:13:05 PMSame with tswon. This form actually makes it: I will fly home. -ti is not *ERG but ACC
Actually, technically, that says "I will fly the home," like "I will drive the car."  You'd want a ne in there, to show home as the destination... Oe-ri tswayon ne kelku.

Yes, that's true. I came up with that a few minutes ago in another thread ... don't know why I didn't think of that then :P

Carborundum

Quote from: Skxawng on January 19, 2010, 02:10:27 PM
Show me love via karma  :P  glad I helped :D
Oh I will, but I don't think I have worked up enough posts for that yet. Either that, or I'm just blind and can't find the right button. In any case, you'll get yours as soon as I find it  :D
We learn from our mistakes only if we are made aware of them.
If I make a mistake, please bring it to my attention for karma.

Malkollm Eanmenari

Quote from: Txepäsiyu on December 28, 2009, 04:27:24 PM
I am green with jealousy over you guys that seem to roll with this stuff so easily!  Ask me about astrophysics, or VASIMR magnetoplasma propulsion systems, or pyrotechnic special effects and I can talk like an adult. I start diddling in languages and the wheels come off my brain and I overheat.

I haven't had this much fun learning something new since the stone age when I was in college.   ;D

Great, then we can exchange the info the other needs.  Aerospace engineering is my major.  But I picked up this in 8 days.

Malkollm Eanmenari

so on wrksht. 1.1: question 5:

_____-ri _____-tsmukan lu txur

With the given translation as:
"My brothers are strong"

The answer in the back is:

oeri aytsmukan lu txur

shouldn't it be:
oeyäri aytsmukan lu txur

??? "my" is the genitive of "I", or so I thought after 4 years of Latin.  Then again, Na'vi is a totally different language (<3 ejectives)...

Plumps

Quote from: Malkollm Eanmenari on January 20, 2010, 05:15:45 PM
so on wrksht. 1.1: question 5:

_____-ri _____-tsmukan lu txur

With the given translation as:
"My brothers are strong"

The answer in the back is:

oeri aytsmukan lu txur

shouldn't it be:
oeyäri aytsmukan lu txur

??? "my" is the genitive of "I", or so I thought after 4 years of Latin.  Then again, Na'vi is a totally different language (<3 ejectives)...

I don't like the topic-marker but whenever there is one, all other markers the (pro)noun should have taken, disappear. The theory is, since there is no other marke in the sentence that would suggest a transitive meaning the understanding of oeri as "my" (but emphazised) would be clear.
I have more problem with *aytsmukan ... ay- lenites the word following, tsmukan is such a noun that allows that. So it should be aysmukan (brothers)

Hope that helped :)

Malkollm Eanmenari

Quote from: Plumps83 on January 20, 2010, 05:38:12 PM
I don't like the topic-marker but whenever there is one, all other markers the (pro)noun should have taken, disappear. The theory is, since there is no other marke in the sentence that would suggest a transitive meaning the understanding of oeri as "my" (but emphazised) would be clear.
I have more problem with *aytsmukan ... ay- lenites the word following, tsmukan is such a noun that allows that. So it should be aysmukan (brothers)

Hope that helped :)

It did.  Thanks!!

Hawnuyu atxen

Kaltxì!

Inthe same worksheet:
me+nga-ri lu ay+taronyu (you two are hunters)

sorry, but i can't understand, why is it aytaronyu since it's just two hunters... it should be metaronyu (or something with the dual adpositional affix), so why???
"Hrrap rä'ä si olo'ur smuktuä." ; "Ke'u ke lu ngay. Frakemit tung." (Assassin's Creed)

Nikre tsa'usìn!

Ftiafpi

Quote from: Hawnuyu atxen on January 22, 2010, 10:21:37 AM
Kaltxì!

Inthe same worksheet:
me+nga-ri lu ay+taronyu (you two are hunters)

sorry, but i can't understand, why is it aytaronyu since it's just two hunters... it should be metaronyu (or something with the dual adpositional affix), so why???

Well, I'm going onto a limb that I'm not too familiar with but it's my understanding that either way would technically be correct. You can say "you two are part of the group of (many) hunters" using the plural ay- affix or you could say "you two are two hunters" using the me- affix and either way is correct.

Hawnuyu atxen

Yeah, i understand that, but... oh, my, at least it should be unambiguous (first time i even heard this word... after 7 and a half year of learning english)
"Hrrap rä'ä si olo'ur smuktuä." ; "Ke'u ke lu ngay. Frakemit tung." (Assassin's Creed)

Nikre tsa'usìn!

Ftiafpi

Quote from: Hawnuyu atxen on January 22, 2010, 11:08:40 AM
Yeah, i understand that, but... oh, my, at least it should be unambiguous (first time i even heard this word... after 7 and a half year of learning english)

Yeah, I'd say the worksheet is correct but the English translation doesn't easily translate into Na'vi because the English translation is ambiguous as to wither you're saying "those two are hunters" or "those two are part of the group of hunters".

P.S. Yea, it is an interesting word.

Plumps

Quote from: Ftiafpi on January 22, 2010, 11:30:52 AM
"those two are part of the group of hunters".

But wouldn't that then be:

mengari lu hapxì aysaronyuyä ???

Ftiafpi

Quote from: Plumps83 on January 22, 2010, 03:41:04 PM
Quote from: Ftiafpi on January 22, 2010, 11:30:52 AM
"those two are part of the group of hunters".

But wouldn't that then be:

mengari lu hapxì aysaronyuyä ???


Well, yes, but (unless I'm mistaken) the literal translation of me+nga-ri lu me+taronyu is "you two be hunters" and the literal translation of me+nga-ri lu ay+taronyu is "you two are hunters (referring to a group of more than 3 hunters)"

Plumps

I understand it more like

You two are two hunters (both me+) vs. You two are part of a group of hunders (me+ & ay+) (as you already said)

Ftiafpi

Quote from: Plumps83 on January 22, 2010, 03:58:53 PM
I understand it more like

You two are two hunters (both me+) vs. You two are part of a group of hunders (me+ & ay+) (as you already said)


yeah, that works.

NeotrekkerZ

Hello all,

I thought I'd create a worksheet on clauses for everyone.  I hope to have it up in a day or two, so please keep an eye out and let me know of any mistakes you find.  Also, to all the linguists out there I did my best to define everything properly, but if you see anything that you think needs tweaking I welcome your input.
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya'ot a oe tswayon!

NeotrekkerZ

The Na'vi Clauses worksheet is attached.  All comments appreciated.
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya'ot a oe tswayon!

Ftiafpi

Quote from: neotrekkerz on January 25, 2010, 12:19:02 AM
The Na'vi Clauses worksheet is attached.  All comments appreciated.

Looks good. I'd put the definition of what a clause is at the very start though. Also, I'd provide room for the person doing the worksheet to write in their answers by hand. As for everything else it looks great, using Frommer's letter for examples was a very good idea.

One other thing I might do would be to match Skxawng's formatting of his worksheets for uniformity but it's not necessary by any means.

Skxawng

Fixed 1.2,

as far as lenition goes, Richard and I agreed that until lenition was covered it might be best to leave the words as base so that new learners could use the dictionary to figure out the sentences.   And -ri  ... well, might as well nix it for -yä to make things simpler.

I'll get to those fixes soon, and hopefully this weekend I'll have some time to sit down and make another worksheet on some of the other affixes.


"prrkxentrrkrr is a skill best saved for only the most cunning linguist"

NeotrekkerZ

Thanks for the suggestions ma Ftiafpi.  Version 1.1 is attached.  Ma Skxawng, if you would like to put a link to this document with the rest of your great worksheets, please feel free. 
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya'ot a oe tswayon!