Author Topic: Worksheets  (Read 18401 times)

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Offline Fyawìntxu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2009, 08:59:19 am »
     kaltxì ma smuktu! oel ngati kameie!

     That's a great job guys! Thank you to take time to work on it, it will be a reference for the community when set as "corrected".

     I hope Dr. Frommer will come around and correct it himself, that would be awesome to have his correction, and be sure about 100% of these documents.

     Hopefully Seabass or some others will let him know about this topic.

@Jake Sully: did you started making some record? I think I'm not too bad neither... and I would love to work on good learning records, as a contribution to the community. Feel free to contact me if you're insterested in that, so we can work on it together.

     Eywa ngahu ma smuk, sì kìyevame.


Fyawintxu
Eywa ayngahu ma smuk!

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2009, 10:11:31 am »
Since I, very very very annoyingly, can't update files on gmail without changing the link, I'm going to have to keep hosting files on the board. Hopefully I'll be able to find a server to upload to regularly, soon. Until then, You're going to have to keep referencing back to my individual posts to new updates of new files.

In this post, I've uploaded for the first time my worksheet on INFIXES. This should be a complete worksheet - let me know what you guys think.

Offline Skxawng

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2009, 10:50:51 am »
Since I, very very very annoyingly, can't update files on gmail without changing the link, I'm going to have to keep hosting files on the board. Hopefully I'll be able to find a server to upload to regularly, soon. Until then, You're going to have to keep referencing back to my individual posts to new updates of new files.

In this post, I've uploaded for the first time my worksheet on INFIXES. This should be a complete worksheet - let me know what you guys think.

Hosted here, and edited into my original post in this thread
http://zombat.roosteredge.com/navi/grammar/infixes.pdf
- awesome stuff taryonu!


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Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2009, 11:32:04 am »
Alright... let me get started on corrections for you in the Infix worksheet. :)

(I'm known to be an English grammar nazi extraordinaire, so my corrections to the English directions at the beginning and such may seem a bit nit-picky.
I know the important thing is to make sure the Na'vi and the questions are correct, but I'll point out all the errors I see just so you have a comprehensive list.)

Under Heading 1 "The Infixes"
First paragraph: "Verbs inflict" should read "Verbs inflect."
Also, you don't need the comma in "...tense, depending..."
You seem to make liberal use of colons here, but since it doesn't seem to distract from reading the instructions (even for me) I'll let them slide.

In the second paragraph (same heading) you state that the infix "goes between the first consonant of a syllable, and the vowel." The comma here can be removed, but, more importantly, shouldn't it be "goes between the first consonant (or consonant cluster) of a syllable and the vowel"?

Still under the same heading, in the list of examples: It says "lu + <am> = t<am>ok was" Changed words on us! I'm thinking since you said it meant "was" you wanted it to read "lu + <am> = l<am>u was"
Also, you have written "kllkulat + <ìm> = kllk<ay>ul<äng>at will dig up (negative)," apparently it should be "...= kllk<ìm>ul<äng>at..."

Third paragraph: In "...and the syllabic ll, because..." the comma should be removed.

Fourth paragraph: "Now, there's some..." should read "Now, there are some..."
Also, the commas here: "...worry about, because..." and here: "...have a problem, because..." should both be removed.
I'll put my spiel on the rule of thumb with "because" in a spoiler:

In the "Fill in the Blank" section:
Question #1: Reads: "Oe sìlstan taronyu ____. I am-LAUD a hunter. Use lu."  However, the Na'vi there is incorrect for the English translation.  First of all "good" (sìltsan) is misspelled as "sìlstan," and there is no -ATTR- affix.
So, it should either be "Oe sìlstan taronyu ____." or "Oe sìltsana taronyu ____. I am-LAUD a good hunter."

Question #2: Reads: "...slä tsun ke..." and intends to convey the meaning "not able to." I believe "ke" should come before "tsun" if that is the intent.  Not completely necessary, I suppose, but I think it would work better that way.

Kìyevame!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 01:23:34 pm by Alìm Tsamsiyu »
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2009, 12:27:00 pm »
Don't worry about correcting it, I already fixed everything.

Thanks, those are all valid points. Except for Oe sìltsan taronyu lu - lu there is a copula, so you don't inflect the adjective accordingly. The misspelling was actually a problem with my dictionary - now fixed. :P

Seriously, thanks so much.

Also, I love colons. They are: the best, the most awesome, and the coolest.

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2009, 12:59:30 pm »
Excellent, I'll work on this right now!

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2009, 01:01:54 pm »
We've posted an edited version. Make sure to get that one, not the one I posted.

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2009, 01:23:03 pm »
Except for Oe sìltsan taronyu lu - lu there is a copula, so you don't inflect the adjective accordingly.

Ah, indeed.  The blank there threw me off because it made me think lu wasn't there. Oh well :)

[EDIT:] Two more corrections for the infixes worksheet:

Since these deal with the answers page, I'll put them in a spoiler...

Question #8 on the Fill in the Blanks exercises:

Question #9, same exercises:

I haven't worked on the narrative exercise portion yet, but I'll be sure to point out any errors if I find them!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 01:37:05 pm by Alìm Tsamsiyu »
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2009, 01:28:14 pm »
Oh, no there will be more corrections needed, and since i wrote it, I won't find them. Please, by all means, continue. :D

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2009, 01:37:34 pm »
I did :D - I just edited my previous post with new corrections.
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline bagget00

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2009, 01:46:18 pm »
Irayo for taking the time out of your day to help us who don't understand. Ineeded this for sure.
eywa ngahu.
"meoauniaea" (meh-oh-ah-oo-nee-ah-eh-ah). "Don't ask me what it means - I haven't assigned a meaning yet. But I love the word!" Frommer said.

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Offline Coda

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2009, 02:05:20 pm »
Notes from 1.2 - Affixes.

1.2.1 "She is a happy hunter" would be poeri lefpoma taronyu lu.  The sentence given doesn't have an adjective for happy.  Also, nouns such as Taronyu don't support infixes.
1.2.4 The translation would be more like "That is a female direhorse.  Not sure we have a stand-alone noun for female or male yet.
1.2.5 Why is son broken out and given the -ru suffix?  Wouldn't "your son" be "ngeyä 'itan"
1.2.6 Is it correct to break up a string of genitives like "my daughter's horse?"
1.2.7 Poan should have -ìl as its suffix, since it ends in a consonant.  Also, didn't stop is past tense, and would need an am infix.
1.2.8 Gross.
1.2.10 Not sure that male/female suffixes work the same with proper nouns.  "Female Neytiri" sounds odd.  You could say however, Neytiri lu tuté.  Neytiri is a woman.

Paragraph:
Oeyä ikranti yayom poeyä tsmukan.  - Translates as my banshee will eat your brother.  I'm not sure how to say "was going to eat," though.
Poel plltxeti kehe!  - Plltxe means speak...not sure, but for a quote san si might be more appropriate.  Also needs to be in past tense for "said."
Oel siti ke eltu, poeyä ikranti si yìmom oeyä mikyun.  - Better said as Poeyä ikranti yìmom oeyä mìkyun ha oe ke eltu si.  Her banshee ate my ears, so I didn't pay attention.
Torukl oeyä tsmuketi yìmeiom.  - Maybe add tsakrr so it's "Then a toruk ate my sister."?  Also, the ergative prefix on toruk needs to be -ìl
Oeri tswayon kelkuti.  - Oeri tswamayon ne kelku.  Ne denotes direction, and it should be in past tense.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 02:38:47 pm by Coda »

Offline Txon'itan

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2009, 02:17:11 pm »
Those worksheets are incredibly useful. It's helping me nail down both vocabulary and grammar. Thank you

Offline Motxokxen

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2009, 02:55:17 pm »
you should add some vocab exercise worksheets. flashcards/translating is nice but it gets really repetitive. 

Offline hiyìka fyawìntxu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2009, 03:11:11 pm »
It's great to see all the effort people are putting in to help others learn. Irayo aynga.
I've a ways to go, but I'd like to help out where I can.

I found an error on the Affixes 1.2 worksheet. In the example of pejorative use, it says:
Quote
Nga T<irm>ar<äng>on lu. He was just hunting, and he didn't like it.
'Nga' should be 'Poan'. It currently reads "You were just hunting...".

Edit: For 1.2.5, the answer says Kam<ie>e. Should read Kam<ei>e.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 03:24:16 pm by hiyìka fyawìntxu »

Offline Pamtseo a-teya

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2009, 04:06:03 pm »
Thank you Skawng for putting all this together.  i have a question about the example of plural change that you gave.  Actually it's more of a question about lenition.  I know it wasn't really addressed in this worksheet, but in the guide it says that when lenition takes place with a plural prefix you can go as far as to drop the whole prefix as well.  Is that an optional thing or do we know really when to use that.  so your example of 'Tsamsiyu turning to Aysamsiyu i agree, but could you also just say Samsiyu as well?

Thanks

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2009, 05:21:34 pm »
Ok... so... I found 15 errors in regard to the narrative of the Na'vi Infixes worksheet... so here they are:

First, the corrections needed with the Na'vi part of it:

  • #1: On the first line, it says "...txana tìrolol 'awyea..." This one was very tricky, as you can't just turn "to sing" (rol) into "singing" by adding tì-, because tìrol means "song."
    I tried my best to understand why the infix <ol> was added, but it seemed to me the only conceivableway to turn it into "singing" was to add <er> to the verb "rol" (producing rerol, which is sing<PR.IMPV>) then using the nominative tì-, producing tìrerol.
    I'm not at all certain that this works, but it seems more likely than "tìrolol" to me.
    So, the (suggested) correction is to make it read "...txana tìrerol 'awyea..." (Lol, " 'awyea " gives me visions of Mr. Koolaid...)

  • #2: Same line, the word "tsìvol-'ima" completely makes no sense to me and doesn't show up in the English translation.  I know tsìvol means 32, but I can figure out neither where the -'ima comes from at all, nor why "32" should even appear there.
    My suggestion: Remove it completely.

  • #3: Second line: "oeyä tarokit _____. _____ pol..."
    Since this is referring to 'he,' it should read "_____ poanìl..."

  • #4: Same line: The word directly after the word "pol" mentioned in #3, "tsyalfa" should be "mesyalfa" since it is referring to Eywä's (presumed) pair of wings.

  • #5: Third line: The first word, "Na'vi" should have the a- affix before it to denote that the adjective "leikrana" (on the previous line) is modifying it.
    It should read: "...leikrana aNa'vi..."

  • #6: Same line: it says "...ulte frapol mikyun _____..." and the English translation says "...and all listened (PERF LAUD: use si)..."  Since the word we're after is "listened" or, in Na'vi it is literally "gave ear," si is the incorrect word, and should be tìng. Also, "frapo-l" is part of #8's correction as well (take note of this).
    So, in the English translation it should say "...listened (PERF LAUD: use tìng)".

  • #7: Same line: directly after the blank I just mentioned in #6, the word "poyä" should be "poanyä since it is intended to be "his."

  • #8: Same line: directly after poyä from #7, the word "tìslusam".  Because "frapo-l" has the Ergative suffix '-l' there must be an Accusative present also.
    The direct object (it's actually the object of the preposition in this case) of the verb "listened" is "his wisdom." Therefore, the accusative suffix '-ti' (that's the one I'm using until the rules are made clear on -t and -it) should be added to "tìslusam."
    So, the correction is "...tìslusamti."

  • #9: Fourth (next) line: "kxener-ti" has the accusative suffix '-ti,' but there is no ergative '-l' present in the sentence.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the two must either both be present or not at all.
    So the correction here is to simply remove the '-ti,' yielding "kxenerti..."

  • #10: Next line (line 5): "Ayfmawn" is translated into English at the bottom as "the news" when it actually means "all the news" or "all the reports."  While this may be the intended meaning, the English translation does not reflect that, and thus one of two is incorrect.
    Since "fmawn" means "news" all by itself, the change should be either "Ayfmawn" or "the news" ==> "all the news" (reports might sound better there in that case.)

  • #11: Next line (line 6): "tsafya" here should be the accusative matched with the ergative "oel" from line 5.
    So, "tsafyati."

  • #12: Last line (line 7): I must say well done adapting Dr. Frommer's line for your purposes here, but the first word, "pohu," should be "poanhu" since it is intended to mean "(with) him."

  • #13: Same line: I wasn't really sure if this one needs correction or not, since it's kind of taboo as to whether or not they are the same, but you put "pllte" and Dr. Frommer's line says "prrte."  I think it may have been concluded that these two were the same word, but I'm not certain so I figured I'd point it out to you.


Now the last two are on the answers page, so I'll spoiler'em out.


Phew..... Oel tsa'uru krrìta apxa nìhawng, nang!
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline damp

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2009, 06:14:02 pm »
thanks, this worksheets helps a lot :D
kaltxí ngaru lu fpom srak?

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2009, 08:38:51 pm »
Alìm - Irayo.

#1: tìrerol does work better. I think it's safe to assume that tìrol can mean singing, as well as song. It makes an abstract noun from it, and there's no reason that couldn't be understood, as well, to be a gerund. But imperfective aspect works better.
#2 tsìvol`ìma - I was wondering how long it would take someone to have an issue with this. When I wrote this thing, I was kind of seeing how far I could stretch the language. Tsìvol means 32 - `ìm I derived from ne'ìm, a preposition meaning back. Together they are supposed to mean 32-back : a large number back, modifying sempul. So, my ancestor. Maybe I'll just use father. damn.
#3 Done.
#4 Noted and done. You're good.
#5 I think you'll find that the -a- goes on the adjective, not on the noun. Hence leikrana.
#6 Changed.
#7 Ibidem.
#8 -ti is used for pronouns, specifically second person (I believe.) -it is used after a consonant, -t after a vowel. Changed to -it.
#9 Na'vi allows subject deletion. You don't need the oel. I refer you to "ngati kame", from neytiri to Tsu'tey in the eerie.
#10 I don't know about this. fmawn means 'news', but that can be actually a singular, in english. I added the ay to show that more than one news report shows this news. I don't think ay+ means all the news.
#11 I removed the -l. Since tsafya has a ne in front of it, it is not the subject, but a prepositional clause, which means it does not take an accusative ending.
#12-15 Changed.

Dude, you rock.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 10:07:37 pm by Taronyu »

Offline mO_Tan

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Re: Worksheets
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2010, 11:28:18 am »
these worksheets are like... amazingly... AWESOME!

Irayo!
"Guys, come on. Whats wrong with this picture? Wheres my cigerette?"

 

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