Kìyevame! ...no...

Clarke · June 14, 2011, 06:01:55 PM

Ke "kìyevame", lapo.

I think I've messed up the grammar there, but the original line wasn't that "textbook" anyway.

Anyway, sci-fi enthusiast/writer here. (My latest project actually involves Avatar in a rather roundabout way, but that's another topic.) Although I'm a total physics/computing nerd, for some reason languages don't go 'click' in my head the same way harder science does. I'm going to try to not let that stop me though. For all I know, Na'vi's more organized than German. (I've headdesked multiple times trying to deal with the many forms of "sien." Thankfully I'm not formally studying it anymore.)

I tend to lurk an awful lot, even on forums I'm interested in, so if this turns out to be my last post ever, err... oh well.

I'll try to make sure it isn't, though. (Maybe I'll even get as far as reading the niNa'vi boards.)

So let me try that again: kaltxì.

'Oma Tirea · June 15, 2011, 12:23:08 AM

...ulte zola'eiu nìprrte'

bommel · June 15, 2011, 02:03:05 AM

Kaltxì and welcome to the forum

Eana Tanhì · June 15, 2011, 06:09:24 AM

Zola'u nìprrte' ma Thomas

Ftxavanga Txe′lan · June 15, 2011, 06:23:15 AM

Welcome to you!

Well, kìyevame is correct if you wanted to say goodbye. But I guess kaltxì expresses better what you wished to tell.

Other ways to say goodbye would be hayalovay (until next time) and Eywa ngahu (Eywa be with you).

I hope you have a great time here, and that you do post once in a while.

I'm sure you can succeed learning Na'vi if you puts efforts into it: it's not too complicated/complex if we compare it to German.

Tirea Aean · June 15, 2011, 08:00:13 AM

Don't worry, Na'vi is VERY logical and consistent. Plus, no articles and no gendered nouns and no verb conjugation to personal pronouns. <3

Its not as big of a pain as Jake makes it sound

Kamean · June 15, 2011, 10:58:26 AM

Kaltxì ma Thomas ulte zola'eiu nìprrte'!

At first I advise you come to this stuff and read this language studying tips. If you want pick language easier, it's only one way - try to speak. And don't be afraid of errors and ask all that you don't understand. Everyone here will be glad to help you.
And listen this Karyu Pawl's speech, it helps you pronounce difficult Na'vi sounds, as kx, px, tx and ì.

Eywa ngahu.

Clarke · June 15, 2011, 02:39:23 PM

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 15, 2011, 08:00:13 AM
Don't worry, Na'vi is VERY logical and consistent. Plus, no articles and no gendered nouns and no verb conjugation to personal pronouns. <3

Its not as big of a pain as Jake makes it sound

In other words, no messy bits?

I never really understood what the point of gendered nouns were, since the genders don't even seem to be related to the noun. (The example that immediately springs to mind is "die Diskette." How can disks be female?)

And I accidentally found Jake's name in the dictionary. It took me about a minute to stop laughing.

Yeah, I'm not putting much faith in him as a good judge of difficulty.

Also, does anyone have an idea where that (<---) avatar comes from? I don't remember ever seeing it in the film.

'Oma Tirea · June 15, 2011, 02:45:55 PM

Spoiler

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä · June 15, 2011, 03:17:35 PM

Zola`eiu nìprrte`, ma Thomas

Do not feel alone, I am very much like you. I have some background in almost every area of science, with a strong background in electronics, biology/zoology and physics. Learning a language wasn't something I had planned to do when I did a search on the word Omatakaya a year and a half ago.

Since I have never formally learned another language before, I took it as an intellectual challenge to learn Na`vi and learn it well. At that time there was less vocabulary, but the grammar and syntax were still not settled. But I systematically worked at things (and although there are a few odds and ends of exceptions to the rules), everything in this language is pretty straightforward.

If what worked for me will work for you, here is what I suggest: Learn the noun and verb structure and inflections first. You don't need to learn all the verb infixes at first, but learn the most common ones ( <am>,<ay>,<ìm>, <ìy>,<er>,<ol>,<iv> (important!),<äp>,<eyk>,<us>,<awn>,<ei> and <äng>) Learn the plural prefeixes, and the short plural form. Lenition is also important to understand, but is also quite systematic. With a basic grasp of these timgs, build sentences. Use simple sentences to talk to your pets (I talk to the zoo animals (I'm a lionkeeper on the weekends) in Na`vi while working with them), or to yourself.

If you are like a lot of other technical folks, you are a 'book learner'. Read and listen to the material here. If you have time, talk on Teamspeak or Skype with other Na`vi speakers.

I would also recommend you take a look at William Annis's excellent reference grammar http://www.learnnavi.org/docs/horen-lenavi.pdf You may find this as useful or more useful than the uaually-recommended Na`vi in a Nutshell, because it is very logically laid out.

Aove all, consider learning Na`vi to en an enjoyable intellectual pastime, and I think you will find it will irresistabally draw you into learning!

Alyara Arati · June 15, 2011, 05:54:45 PM

Kaltxì ulte zola'eiu nìprrte' ma tsmukan!

Oel ngati kameie. This is the sentence Jake is trying to say in your picture, by the way.

Kìyevameie. This is such a useful and beautiful word; no wonder you like it.

'Oma Tirea · June 16, 2011, 02:18:00 AM

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on June 15, 2011, 03:17:35 PM
( <am>,<ay>,<ìm>, <ìy>,<ei>,<ol>,<iv> (important!),<äp>,<eyk>,<us> and <awn>)

...and <er>

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä · June 16, 2011, 02:27:33 PM

Stä`nì nìsìltsan I actually meant <er> where I used <ei>. But that said, both <ei> and <äng> are commonly used infixes.

I added these to my original post for the benefit of future readers.

Clarke · June 16, 2011, 03:33:34 PM

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on June 15, 2011, 03:17:35 PM
If you are like a lot of other technical folks, you are a 'book learner'. Read and listen to the material here. If you have time, talk on Teamspeak or Skype with other Na`vi speakers.

I don't think I'm that good at book learning, since I actually fail pretty bad at the "book"-ish bits. I'm just good at the structure and diving through it, (i.e. getting from the beginning to end of a maths question) but I guess the only structure to vocab is the dictionary. I suppose Ctrl-F is my friend.

Quote from: 'Oma Tirea on June 16, 2011, 02:18:00 AM
...and <er>

Not helping!

Tirea Aean · June 16, 2011, 04:14:01 PM

Well that's ok, not everyone learns languages the same way. just go through Na'vi in a Nutshell guide and when you approach a term such as those in OP, just ~~post it here~~ make a new thread in beginners board, post them all there, and we will try to help out with that.

I really sggest you read all the sticky threads over in beginners board.

Please be patient, as learning this language, as simple as it is compared to some Earth languages, will take time amd practice.

'Oma Tirea was just adding the <er> infix to 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä's list of commonly used ones that are worth learning. So it is kinda helping.

Clarke · June 16, 2011, 06:11:20 PM

Yeah, I'm working my way through the sticky threads and all the documents floating around. (After arguing with my PDF reader.) Has anyone ever tried machine translation from Na'vi? One thing I noticed with "RL" foreign languages was that, say, listening to English with German subtitles helped a lot. I know some people translate what they're saying in the beginner section, (thank you.

) but when they don't, looking everything up can be tedious, and infixes seem to make it very hard to find anything without checking against the list of infixes first.

And oops, I reflexively use

to mean being sarcastic, but obviously it's a totally different image here. Obviously inaccuracy is a Very Bad Thing. I meant that it wasn't helping because it doesn't inspire my confidence if `Eylan Ayfalulukanä gets it wrong after being here for so much longer than I have. (and I'm still joking. I'll get it eventually, somehow.)

Tirea Aean · June 16, 2011, 07:33:10 PM

Yeah... The thing is, if everyone did desc translation on all their Na'vi, it might be too tempting to just read the English inside rather than read the Na'vi. But I cant say that for all people. :p It's just that a lot of the time you will be getting a loose translation and not word for word. Especially since word for word translations are almost impossible to do.

I honestly think that if you spend enough time with the right people and doing the right kinds of exercises, you can totally get it. Generally, the rules of teh language are straightforward to understand if explained the right way. They are also logical. And there are exceptions, but very few. VERY VERY VERY VERY few compared to English

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä · June 17, 2011, 02:39:12 AM

txoat pawm oei if I have tripped you up in any way. That was never the intent. I will leave you to work with Tirea Aean who is a MUCH better teacher than I am.

Tirea Aean · June 17, 2011, 07:18:03 AM

Frapo sìkxey si.

Clarke · June 18, 2011, 10:12:18 AM

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 16, 2011, 07:33:10 PM
Yeah... The thing is, if everyone did desc translation on all their Na'vi, it might be too tempting to just read the English inside rather than read the Na'vi. But I cant say that for all people. :p It's just that a lot of the time you will be getting a loose translation and not word for word. Especially since word for word translations are almost impossible to do.

Yeah, Translation Yes was definitely a lot more amusing when I wasn't studying languages. Now it's just annoying.