A collection

[wm.annis]

I recently translated a Navajo Coyote tale into Na'vi.  There were a few words missing, and I had a few style questions I wanted checked by Karyu Pawl before I was willing to present the text in public.  I have a few updates to make to that story yet, but I thought people would be interested in some of the comments, which include some grammar as well as a few new bits of vocabulary.

This would be a good place for the "indefinite o." You can optionally add an o to nouns to show indefiniteness—an N, one N, some N. (The case endings follow the o.) Useful in contexts where the def./indef. status isn't clear. (Cf. one kid's comment to another when Jake first visits Hometree: "Txopu rä'ä si, lu ketuwongo nì'aw." Also cf. tsengo 'somewhere, ' tuteo 'someone') Here, without the –o the opening could be read, "It was the day when . . ."

Encounter, meet by chance = ultxarun. (Cf. ultxa si hu = meet with s.o. intentionally).

Nang is always sentence-final and appears with nìtxan.

Mì is like en in Spanish—either 'in' or 'on.' Back (body part) = txal.

"I wish" or "Oh that . . ." is nìrangal (rangal 'wish' v.) followed by the present imperfective subjunctive –irv- for present counterfactuals or the present perfective subjunctive –ilv- for past counterfactuals.

Better: Pìsyeng oe ngar. The two future markers have alternate forms with s: -ì(s)y- and -a(s)y- . The s-forms are used optionally to indicate determination to bring something about rather than a simple prediction about the future. (I used them occasionally but probably shd. do so more.)

Spark = txepvi. (-vi is a formative along the lines of what Kirk and Britton have suggested. It's related to "child" (cf. 'eveng, 'evi; also cf. Malay/Indonesian "anak") and is used loosely for the spawn of s.t. bigger. So sparks are the children of the fire. (Cf. also Na'vi!)

Lefpom is nfp (not for people)—use it for "happy story," "joyous occasion," etc. For people: nitram. For internal states (happy, sad, hot, cold, hungry, thirsty, . . .) use 'efu + ADJ, as in Eng. "I feel cold."

Tok is actually a transitive verb (!): to be in a place is to occupy that place and thereby change its nature. (2) With krr, txan is the opposite of yol. Cf.: Yola krr, txana krr, ke transten. "It doesn't matter how long it takes" (a Moat line that I don't think made it to the final cut).

I asked him how to indicate simultaneous action, "she ran away laughing."

I've been using tengkrr plus –er-

Finally,

Chase = fewi, catch = stä'nì. Don't forget ke along with kawkrr.

Comments:

• The perfective if ultxarun is ultxarolun, so it's a compound verb.
  
• Squeeee! New future infixes!
  
• Indefinite -o will make many people happy.
  
• Note the instructions about ke with kawkrr
  

[Kemaweyan]

Tewti, irayo.

Ngian lu oeru 'awtìpawm a lu eyawr lì'u a san transten sìk srak? Fu nìeyawr fko pivlltxe san tsranten sìk srak?

[wm.annis]

Ngian lu oeru 'awtìpawm a lu eyawr lì'u a san transten sìk srak?

Oel fpìl futa san transten sìk lu kxeyey.

[Kemaweyan]

Irayo, oe fpìl tengfya

[Plumps]

tewti!!!

thanks for sharing!!!

[omängum fra'uti]

Wow, you sure know how to get new stuff out of him.

[wm.annis]

I ask infrequently, but with precision.

I also asked about nouns ending in the pseudo-vowels.  Because they cannot occur in closed syllables or occur next to their consonantal siblings there are some interesting puzzles.

I gave him this:

trr             'ewll
trrìl           'ewllìl
trrit (trrti)   'ewllit ('ewllti)
trrur          'ewllur ('ewllru?)
trrä           'ewllä                    (actually, I forgot the genitives)
trrìri          'ewllìri ('ewllri?)

And he answered,

Yes, those forms all look good. (And I'd avoid the ones in parentheses that you've questioned.) Also: trrä, 'ewllä.

[omängum fra'uti]

Ah now that you show that all in context...  It sounds like the parenthesized forms are kangay, but probably should be avoided as bad practice most of the time.

[Plumps]

A few follow-up questions after having gone through it completely and trying to use it for the German forum...

Are "catch" and "chase" nouns or verbs?

I'm not sure I get the concept of tok being a transitive verb. Does that mean, that I would say
*oel na'rìngit tok for "I'm in (or at?) the forest"

Do I understand the infixes ‹irv› and ‹ilv› after nìrangal correctly as conditional I and II respectively

Would you understand the ‹asy› and ‹ìsy› infixes as something along the lines what I was talking about in the Topic: Time thread?

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

I think I'm a little confused. So since lefpom is nfp does that mean instead of saying "Ngaru lefpom srak?" It should be "Ngaru nitram srak?" or "Ngaru lu nitram srak?"?

[NeotrekkerZ]

Note the instructions about ke with kawkrr

Does this mean I never traveled to Hometree is Oe kawkrr ne Kelutral ke samop?

I'll also echo Plumps83's confusion over the new tenses:

irv:  I wish I were going there
ilv:  I wish I had gone there

Also, if my interpretation of ilv is correct, how would you translate alm in my example sentence? 

alm:  I had gone there (no possibility)

[Kì'eyawn]

Note the instructions about ke with kawkrr

Does this mean I never traveled to Hometree is Oe kawkrr ne Kelutral ke samop?

Oel spaw futa ngeyä säfpìl lu eyawr.  C'est un peu comme <<ne...jamais>> en français, n'est-ce pas?  On peut dire <<never>> ou <<not ever>> en anglais.

[Kì'eyawn]

I think I'm a little confused. So since lefpom is nfp does that mean instead of saying "Ngaru lefpom srak?" It should be "Ngaru nitram srak?" or "Ngaru lu nitram srak?"?

We say ngaru lu fpom srak--literally, do you have happiness.  I think Karyu Pawl is saying that *Oe lefpom lu* is incorrect, but Oe nitram lu is fine.

What makes this funny to me is that if nitram is "happy" then "happily" is nìnitram.

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

I know the majority of us used ngaru lu fpom srak but I've also seen ngaru lefpom srak a decent amount too.

[Kì'eyawn]

I know the majority of us used ngaru lu fpom srak but I've also seen ngaru lefpom srak a decent amount too.

And i don't want to offend, but i think that's a simple mistake.  It doesn't make grammatical sense to have the dative suffix on nga and then use an adjective instead of a noun.  I think it probably comes from a mishearing/misremembering of "lu fpom".

[Lance R. Casey]

I'm not sure I get the concept of tok being a transitive verb. Does that mean, that I would say
*oel na'rìngit tok for "I'm in (or at?) the forest"

You would, but it also means we need to reinterpret the NYT spoken sample, which has been assumed to be:

Oe( )hu Txewì trram na'rìngmì tarmok ...

If tok is transitive, then it's probably na'rìngit instead, which fits with what I hear, but I can't find an ergative -l on either oe (which is monosyllabic here) or Txewì. Perhaps he's just changed his mind about it since then?

Anyway, it mirrors the Klingon Dab, which means "dwell at, inhabit a place" and takes the place in question as its direct object: tera' vIDab I live on Earth rather than **tera'Daq jIDab using locative and intransitive markers. In fact, Klingon does this a lot, with verbs you'd not expect from an English perspective.

As for lefpom, remember that it is an adjectival derivation of fpom well-being, peace, harmony with the natural world, not "happiness" per se.

[omängum fra'uti]

I've always heard the oe there as oel and na'rìng as na'rìngit, so that just clears it up nicely.  I'd figured it was just mishearing because of the nearby sounds when I was told tok was intransitive.

Oel hu Txewì trram na'rìngit tarmok, tsole'a syeptutet atsawl frato mì sìrey.  Lu fo lehrrap.  Tsun tute spivang ko.  Oel omum.  Nari si ayoe fteke nìhawng livok.

[Plumps]

That beeing cleared up ... can you comment on my other questions?

[wm.annis]

Are "catch" and "chase" nouns or verbs?

Verbs, sorry.  I removed too much context.

Do I understand the infixes ‹irv› and ‹ilv› after nìrangal correctly as conditional I and II respectively

Since I do not know what you mean by "conditional I" and "conditional II", I cannot say.  Which language are you borrowing this terminology from?  "Conditional II" in Old Occitan is probably different from "Conditional II" in, say, some obscure Bantu language. 

Would you understand the ‹asy› and ‹ìsy› infixes as something along the lines what I was talking about in the Topic: Time thread?

It sure looks close, doesn't it.

[Plumps]

Are "catch" and "chase" nouns or verbs?

Verbs, sorry.  I removed too much context.

Do I understand the infixes ‹irv› and ‹ilv› after nìrangal correctly as conditional I and II respectively

Since I do not know what you mean by "conditional I" and "conditional II", I cannot say.  Which language are you borrowing this terminology from?  "Conditional II" in Old Occitan is probably different from "Conditional II" in, say, some obscure Bantu language. 

Sorry, now I removed too much context
I meant the conditional in English sentences
If she comes, we'll go to the movies => conditional I
If I were you, I would do things differently => conditional II
The terminology is from German teaching so, maybe there is a difference in defining these things...

Otherwise, thanks for the clarification.