Author Topic: A new participle infix: ‹awn›  (Read 3728 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wm.annis

  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3074
  • Karma: 143
  • Translate the meaning, not the words!
A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« on: March 12, 2010, 06:41:28 pm »
In an email discussion about vocabulary matters, Karyu Pawl said this of someone's words — Aylì’u apawnlltxe nìltsan!.  It took me a few seconds to realize what I was seeing.  Then I asked for confirmation.  Was there really an object adjective (aka passive participle) infix? 

Quote from: Karyu Pawl
-us- and -awn- are parallel infixes--active and passive participles respectively.

ioang apuslltxe
lì'fya apawnlltxe
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 06:48:13 pm »
Txantsan!  Leru tsaw nawnew!
(Yeah I know it's a bit awkward of a sentence because it's contrived to use awn.)
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Plumps

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6187
  • Karma: 222
  • ’Ivong Na’vi
    • Aylì'uä Ramunong (Pìlok)
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 06:51:27 pm »
Amazing news! Thanks for sharing!

So, that means "spoken words" ?

Offline Kemaweyan

  • Eywatsyìp
  • ******
  • *
  • Posts: 14675
  • ua Ukraine
  • Karma: 240
  • Swirä letxon
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 07:01:28 pm »
Irayo nìtxan! Set oe pìyeng ayeylanur oeyä nìwotx ::)

Rutxe nari si: nì+<awn>+omum ::) Awngal omum fìlì'ut ;)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 07:15:57 pm by Kemaweyan »
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline roger

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
  • Karma: 22
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 07:25:07 pm »
So it would seem that Na'vi has passive participles, but not passive clauses of the "X was said by Y" variety. Paul has said he's avoided that kind of construction, and AFAIK there is no word for the "by" that we would need to create it. Like the lack of /b d g/, this seems to be a point that we were meant to work around.

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 07:34:28 pm »
Passive voice he said would be based on word order emphasis...

Eg. Frapol ayerikti teraron - Everyone hunts hexapods
Ayerikit frapol teraron - Hexapods are hunted by everyone
Ayerikit teraron frapol - Hexapods are hunted by EVERYONE

But working around the lack of <awn> is a lot more cumbersome...

Ayerik atawnaron - Hunted hexapods
Ayerik a fot fkol teraron - Hexapods that are hunted
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline roger

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
  • Karma: 22
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 07:57:17 pm »
Do you know that it's "ayerik", or are you making that assumption? That's s.t. I've been wondering about.

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 08:08:53 pm »
It's an assumption, but on the grand scale of assumptions, it seems like a reasonably safe one to make.  However knowing is always nicer than assuming.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Swoka Swizaw

  • Guest
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 10:20:52 pm »
Finally, an infix with "n." I was wondering if he'd use that.

Offline Lance R. Casey

  • Eyktan
  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 948
  • se Sweden
  • Karma: 57
  • Man cenuva métim' andúnë?
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2010, 07:30:44 am »
Rutxe nari si: nì+<awn>+omum ::) Awngal omum fìlì'ut ;)

Tewti! Tsalì'u ahiyìk law lam set. Nga eltu sarmatsi nìltsan! :)

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Kì'eyawn

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1779
  • Karma: 32
  • Oeru syaw "tigermind" kop.
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 04:53:34 pm »
Huzzah!  I have more translations to fix!

Edit:  I just had a thought:  What does it mean if we stick this infix inside of an intransitive verb?  Or would it be meaningless?  Like, does *r<awn>ey mean anything?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 05:36:43 pm by tigermind »
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline okrìsti

  • Tute
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 383
  • Karma: 16
  • You are all awesome!
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2010, 12:57:50 am »
Edit:  I just had a thought:  What does it mean if we stick this infix inside of an intransitive verb?  Or would it be meaningless?  Like, does *r<awn>ey mean anything?
I think so. I have made up these: aysìpawnlltxe or aysìpawneng :)
dA | nga tsun oehu pivlltxe fa skype: c4duser
awngeyä wìki sìltsan lu
txopu lu fya’o ne vawma pa’o – nawma karyu Yotxa

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2010, 01:04:21 am »
I think your melì'u just broke my eltu.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline roger

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
  • Karma: 22
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2010, 01:22:37 am »
Huzzah!  I have more translations to fix!

Edit:  I just had a thought:  What does it mean if we stick this infix inside of an intransitive verb?  Or would it be meaningless?  Like, does *r<awn>ey mean anything?

The only way it could mean anything was if it transitivized the verb, "my life was lived well" etc. English is pretty flexible that way, but don't know about Na'vi

Offline Kì'eyawn

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1779
  • Karma: 32
  • Oeru syaw "tigermind" kop.
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2010, 02:54:47 pm »
Huzzah!  I have more translations to fix!

Edit:  I just had a thought:  What does it mean if we stick this infix inside of an intransitive verb?  Or would it be meaningless?  Like, does *r<awn>ey mean anything?

The only way it could mean anything was if it transitivized the verb, "my life was lived well" etc. English is pretty flexible that way, but don't know about Na'vi

Hmm, so... would tawnerkup be... dead?  Or am i misunderstanding how this participle works?
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline Tsamsteu

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 175
  • Karma: 2
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2010, 03:06:17 pm »
theoretically, i believe it past participle of die is dead, so the verb terkup would take up the "awn" infix, tawnerkup...just have to make sure if u have a noun you add the adjectival prefix accordingly! ...tawtute atawnerkup. (dead skyperson?)
"You have a strong heart; no fear. But stupid, ignorant like a child." - Neytiri

Neytiri, oeyä tsmuke, oel ngati kameie....

Offline Plumps

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6187
  • Karma: 222
  • ’Ivong Na’vi
    • Aylì'uä Ramunong (Pìlok)
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2010, 03:30:58 pm »
No, I don't think you do ... but it's "died" as in "the died father" I'm not sure whether this is common in English - I guess, English uses "late" for somebody who died: "the late father" or simply "the father who died"
In German it's possible to say "died father"

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 03:38:14 pm »
<awn> is PASSIVE participle, not PAST participle
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Tsamsteu

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 175
  • Karma: 2
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2010, 03:48:04 pm »
..or is it a past participle in passive voice...what is a passive participle? cause i agree that i think it would be "died," but past participle is used to create a perfect tense or passive voice..."has eaten" vs "was eaten"..
"You have a strong heart; no fear. But stupid, ignorant like a child." - Neytiri

Neytiri, oeyä tsmuke, oel ngati kameie....

Offline wm.annis

  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3074
  • Karma: 143
  • Translate the meaning, not the words!
Re: A new participle infix: ‹awn›
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2010, 04:09:36 pm »
..or is it a past participle in passive voice...what is a passive participle? cause i agree that i think it would be "died," but past participle is used to create a perfect tense or passive voice..."has eaten" vs "was eaten"..

We're screwed up by the English language here.  We only have a past passive participle.  We have no good way to express a tenseless, passive participle, which ‹awn› is.  So we have to fake it with our past passive participle.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines | XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, LightStorm Entertainment or The Walt Disney Company.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi