Affective Obligation (zenke)

[wm.annis]

We know that the modal for "negative obligation" is zenke, as in nga zenke kivä you must not go ([1]).  It is pretty obviously derived from zene ke.  But I was curious how to cope with the 2nd position infixes, since I was uncomfortable with the idea that the ke element would get an infix.  So I asked.  Here's what Pawl said about it,

Zenke. Interesting question. I went back and forth on this one. But since the word is clearly from original *zeneke, there would probably also have been a form *zenängeke with a second-position infix. This one too would evolve to lose the e by syncope:

That is: *zenängeke > zenängke. [Stress remains in the first syllable.]

In the same way: *zolenängeke > zolenängke, *zayeneieke > zayeneike, etc.

Note, however, that with the ceremonial ‹uy› and suppositional ‹ats› the e does not go away, since the resulting syllable would be illegal, so zolenuyeke and zolenatseke.

[Kemaweyan]

Irayo

[Plumps]

Most interesting!
I was wondering about that as well.

The list of verbs that behave outside 'the norm' gets bigger

Now, all I want is a confirmation on kenong ... tsakrr, 'ayefu ye ... kxawm

[Kamean]

Irayo seiyi! 

[Seze Mune]

Way beyond my competence at the moment, but I know I will appreciate it in time.

[Sireayä mokri]

Sìltsan, I always like to see some exceptions to general rules

[Ftiafpi]

Way beyond my competence at the moment, but I know I will appreciate it in time.

Basically this boils down to a word that doesn't behave like we think it should.

In Na'vi the infixes mostly all are followed by vowels. However, in zeneke the infixes cause the word to lose an "e" resulting in the infixes being followed by a consonant. That's all that's really going on here, a word that has an unusual form. This is a good thing, natural languages have many unusual forms and words.

Edit: Fixed my silly mistake, that's what I get for skimming posts.

[Seze Mune]

That's all that's really going on here, a "compound" word that has an unusual form. This is a good thing, natural languages have many unusual forms and words.

A linguist's spice in life, kefyak?

['Oma Tirea]

Kinda related: how would one infix <ei> in pllngay?  I would expect a y after the <ei> since no Na'vi pseudovowel can stand alone.

[Kemaweyan]

Kinda related: how would one infix <ei> in pllngay?  I would expect a y after the <ei> since no Na'vi pseudovowel can stand alone.

Hmm.. interesting.. Probably you're right

[Plumps]

Ke by itself normally can't take infixes but in zenke (which is obviously from two words, zene (must) and ke (not)) you have the infixes going in the second syllable (the "ke" part). That's all that's really going on here, a "compound" word that has an unusual form. This is a good thing, natural languages have many unusual forms and words.

Not quite, look closer. The really interesting part is that the infix of the second position go before the ke part, i.e. before a consonant and that is highly unusual in Na'vi

[Nyx]

Very interesting. Thanks for the update

[Ftiafpi]

Ke by itself normally can't take infixes but in zenke (which is obviously from two words, zene (must) and ke (not)) you have the infixes going in the second syllable (the "ke" part). That's all that's really going on here, a "compound" word that has an unusual form. This is a good thing, natural languages have many unusual forms and words.

Not quite, look closer. The really interesting part is that the infix of the second position go before the ke part, i.e. before a consonant and that is highly unusual in Na'vi

Oh, my mistake. I fixed my post.