Author Topic: Another email ta Frommer - no answers as of yet, but a few interesting points  (Read 1262 times)

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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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I sent Frommer an email this afternoon regarding participles of si verbs and restrictive/non-restrictive relative clauses, I checked my email again about three hours later and to my surprise he'd already replied, sadly with no answers because he's busy with a lot of proper work, but still a few interesting points are raised.

Quote from: Frommer
Kaltxì, ma Kemeoauniaea--

Mesìpawmìri atxantsan seiyi oe ngar irayo. Pxiset ke lu oeru krr fte tì'eyngit tivìng, slä fmayi oe 'iveyng ye'rìn. Tsakrrvay, ngeyä tìmweypeyri irayo.

ta Pawl

seiyi oe ngar irayo - completely destroys my idea that si verbs were completely inseparable and makes the issue of the participles all the more interesting. Also means that it is perfectly reasonable to split si verbs (and therefore presumably tìng, peng etc. verbs as well) up.

pxiset - just now, now Frommerian.

The use of tì'eyngit tìng not 'eyng is interesting.

tìmweypey - patience? Presumably derived from tì-mawey-pey.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 04:56:16 pm by kemeoauniaea (tìkawngä mungeyu) »
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Offline Tirea Aean

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aww dude very nice stuff. cant wait to see the answer.

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Offline omängum fra'uti

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I told you so. :D

(Ok so I was mostly going on guesses from half information, but they didn't seem so inseparable to me.)

I wonder if the "tìmweypey" he sent me WRT to the outstanding list of questions was a typo then.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline wm.annis

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Quote from: Frommer
slä fmayi oe 'iveyng ye'rìn.

Ooh!  OohOohOoh!  We now know "try" takes the usual modal syntax.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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I told you so. :D

(Ok so I was mostly going on guesses from half information, but they didn't seem so inseparable to me.)

I wonder if the "tìmweypey" he sent me WRT to the outstanding list of questions was a typo then.

I got tìmweypey in mine but assumed it was  typo, I've changed it back now.

I wonder if it's still the same derivation I was thinking of (tì-mawey-pey).

Quote from: Frommer
slä fmayi oe 'iveyng ye'rìn.

Ooh!  OohOohOoh!  We now know "try" takes the usual modal syntax.


Didn't notice that, yay!
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Offline wm.annis

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I got tìmweypey in mine but assumed it was  typo, I've changed it back now.

This, along with pxiset, was given in the Earth Day list.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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I don't know why but I didn't read that list.

In that case this is a lot less interesting than I thought.  :D
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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But at the same time, more interesting than you thought...  (Rutxe fmi lunit tslivam.)
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Yes, the clarification with fmi constructions is very helpful. Though a lot of members used ‹iv› in the follow-up verb quasi automatically, it’s good to have it confirmed.

Thanks for sharing!

BTW: I know why he answered ;) because you changed your name into a variation of his favorite word :P

Offline Kemaweyan

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Sran, oel kop talmel fìfne'upxaret teri fwa ke lu por set krr :D Slä tsatsenge ke lamu ke'u amip ulte tafral oel ke walmìntxu tsat fitsenge...

Lì'uri a san fmi sìk, irayo seiyi oe ngar, ma tsmukan. Slä lam oer fwa tsaw frakrr lamu law, kefyak?



Ngian oer nì'ul tsranten lì'u a san tìmweypeyri. Ha tsun fko pamrel sivi fìfya a san ...y + ri sìk, kea san ...y + ìri ???
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 05:51:16 pm by Kemaweyan »
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Offline NeotrekkerZ

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Quote from: Frommer
slä fmayi oe 'iveyng ye'rìn.

Ooh!  OohOohOoh!  We now know "try" takes the usual modal syntax.

Glad we got at least that one cleared up too.  :)
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline Prrton

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On 30 March I sent K.P. a list of verbs that seemed to WANT to be modals but for which we had no clarification/model examples.  Fmi was on that list. I included others like «mllte» that seem (to me) to need ur/ru so that they can "work". (>>> Oe molte tsara pohu kä (fu kivä) <<< vs. Oe molte kivä pohu. ? ? ) It's one of the many things on his "back burner" right now, but either my *intuition* was on track or he's been thinking about it vis-à-vis that spreadsheet.

These are the others that I would not be surprised to see PROMOTED to full "direct-to-iv" status:

 - nulnew
 - kin
 - ftxey

 - sngä'i

 - kan (for intent; conceptual sibling to -s- (ìsy, asy))

   *[Oe [keran kivä] (fte) nivìn tsat *'eylananhu.]
     I'm intending to go to watch that with my male friend.

Eventually we'll see.  ;)

Thanks very much for sharing this!

PS: Mllte might also take tsnì instead ?
PPS: The other question in this realm is if "fte-dropping" will be allowed in parallels to this kind of English.

     I began to try to choose to spend time to go see Avatar more often at my friend's house.

These are the prime candidates for fte-dropping (if it's allowed) that I see at this time (not exhaustive):

kä (go)
za'u (come)

hawl (prepare) *prime*
kllfro’ (be responsible) *prime*
hum (leave) *prime*

ftang (stop) (May end up as a sibling to sngä'i ?? If direct to -iv-, then "stop so-and-so-ing." Fte would then be required to say: "He stopped to turn to his and say "I'm sorry.")

ftia (study)
hahaw (sleep)
hangham (laugh)
kämakto (to ride out)
kan (aim)
kar (teach)
kllkxem (stand)
latem (change) [change into (slu)]
lok (approach)
makto (ride)
mìn (turn)
näk (drink)
nekx (burn)
nume (learn)
pähem (arrive)
pängkxo (chats)
pey (wait)
rey (live)
rikx (move/shift postion)
rol (sing)
yom (eat)

muntxa si (to mated)
nari si (watch out, be careful)
srung si (to help)
pamrel si (to write)

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Lì'uri a san fmi sìk, irayo seiyi oe ngar, ma tsmukan. Slä lam oer fwa tsaw frakrr lamu law, kefyak?



Ngian oer nì'ul tsranten lì'u a san tìmweypeyri. Ha tsun fko pamrel sivi fìfya a san ...y + ri sìk, kea san ...y + ìri ???

1. It was being widely used like this but I thought the prevailing opinion was that it ought to use fte.

2. Dipthongs often take odd endings, for some things they count as vowels for others consonants.

Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
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