Author Topic: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl  (Read 3326 times)

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Offline Ftiafpi

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Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« on: April 20, 2010, 10:56:27 pm »
Karyu Pawl has given us some more words and these answer many, many questions I've had, the chief amongst them being what does Tsu'tey say to the soon-to-be hunters in the movie when they start cheering for Jake.

But first, a story! (Since it seems to be the "thing" to do with this little lexicon updates.)

Tse, mì fìvur ayoeng tse'a tsnì Tsu'tey sì TsakSulli werem. Tsu'teyl Tsakit 'oleko tengkrr perlltxe san wiya! sìk slä Tsak rolikx neto. San Wiya! Ftang nga ma Tsu'tey! Oel ngati ke wìyem! sìk Tsak plltxe. Tsu'tey ’eyng fa san oìsss sìk ulte 'eko nìmune. Fìkrr, Tsu'teyä tìtakukri flä ulte mun’i Tsakä pxunit. Neytiri zawng mefuru san Tsa-hey! Rutxe ftang menga! Rutxe! sìk. Tsalsungay, Tsu'tey 'eko nìmune slä Tsakìl poanit takuk nì’awve tengkrr plltxe san sau! Slä tsakrr, Tsak zolup ne kllte ulte Tsu'tey tsole'a fìkem. Poan 'oleko fa kxll slä Neytiri spolä eo Tsak fte tsun poel poanit hivawnu. San saa! sìk poe plltxe Tsu'teyur ulte Tsu'teyl omum furia kawkrr poan poeru ke layu yawne na Tsak poeru lolu yawne.

Txo oe soli kxeyey tsakrr zene oel ayngati peng san ngaytxoa.

ngaytxoa - acknowledgment of guilt and regret - CONV
tsalsungay - nevertheless, even so - ADV
oìsss - angry snarl - CONV
saa - threatening cry - CONV
sau - exclamation upon exertion - CONV
tsa-hey - expression of warning or frustration - CONV
tse - well (sentence opener) - CONV
wiya - expression of warning or frustration - CONV
ìley - war cry - CONV


Now, some interesting details is that Frommer has told us that, with the exception of tse, ngaytxoa and tsalsungay, all of these words were created by the actors Zoë and Laz, presumably during filming. Thus, some of them don't comply exactly with the usual Na'vi phonology. As prrton pointed out to me though, there are parallels in English such as "grrrr", "hmmmm", "hrumph" and etc.

The violators are:

Oìsss (no final vowel after "s")
Saa (double/long vowel "a")
Tsa-hey (that hyphen which both prrton and I've been guessing is a slight pause as opposed to a true glottal stop)

Now, obviously we need some good parallels for these in Enlgish other than "expression of warning or frustration". Some suggestions I (and prrton as well) have are:

Oìsss - "Watch it!" or "You're pissing me off!"
Tsa-hey - "Oh crap!" or "Aw, hell!" (probably without the vulgar nature of the English though)
Wiya - "Dammit!" (again, probably without the vulgar nature)
Sau - Totally guessing at the usage here but I picture this as the grunt one makes when trying to pick up a heavy object or some similar action.

Oh, and finally, since prrton hadn't heard about it, I just want to add Frommer's official, un-official Na'vi version of LOL; HRH. This is from the YouTube interview he did.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 08:28:14 am by Ftiafpi »

Offline Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2010, 11:02:56 pm »
Tse, we've certainly been waiting long enough for some angry words. hrh
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Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2010, 11:04:36 pm »
Tse, we've certainly been waiting long enough for some angry words. hrh

Yeah, I'm so glad we finally have these. Na'vi's been really lacking in conversational words/phrases and these really help fill some gaps.

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 11:07:49 pm »
Do you know if any of these are good for happy conversations as well. Sort of like "Damn, I'm glad you got me out of there". Maybe by using "ei"?
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Offline Kä'eng

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 11:08:58 pm »
tsa-hey - expression of warning or frustration - CONV
wiya - expression of warning or frustration - CONV
Lu fìmelì'ur nìngay tenga meral srak? (I notice we're still missing "exclamation of consternation".)
Ma evi, ke'u ke lu prrte' to fwa sim tuteot ayawne.
Slä txo tuteo fmi 'ivampi ngat ro seng, fu nìfya'o, a 'eykefu ngati vä', tsakem ke lu sìltsan.
Tsaw lu ngeyä tokx! Kawtu ke tsun nìmuiä 'ivampi ngat txo ngal ke new tsakemit.
Ha kempe si nga? Nì'awve, nga plltxe san kehe. Tsakrr, ngal tsatsengti hum!

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 11:09:50 pm »
Do you know if any of these are good for happy conversations as well. Sort of like "Damn, I'm glad you got me out of there". Maybe by using "ei"?

I doubt it, these words all seem to have an inherent negative connotation to them. Perhaps they could be used playfully/sarcastically but we don't know how to do that in Na'vi yet AFAIK.

tsa-hey - expression of warning or frustration - CONV
wiya - expression of warning or frustration - CONV
Lu fìmelì'ur nìngay tenga meral srak? (I notice we're still missing "exclamation of consternation".)

According to Frommer they both have similar meanings, but I doubt it's the same.

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 11:11:58 pm »
tsa-hey - expression of warning or frustration - CONV
wiya - expression of warning or frustration - CONV
Lu fìmelì'ur nìngay tenga meral srak? (I notice we're still missing "exclamation of consternation".)

According to Frommer they both have similar meanings, but I doubt it's the same.
If anything I'd say we need more ... down the road when everyone has the base vocab down.

im a big fan of wiya ... an impatient "god damnit"  or 'f***!'


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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2010, 01:13:55 am »
Quote
Tsa-hey - "Oh crap!" or "Aw, hell!" (probably without the vulgar nature of the English though)

Now we know how to translate "continuous fire" into Na'vi when we're in battles on Minbari ships.

Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline roger

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 01:32:33 am »
The violators are:
[...]
Tsa-hey (that hyphen which both prrton and I've been guessing is a slight pause as opposed to a true glottal stop)

I saw this transcribed with stress on both syllables. I think that may be what the hyphen is trying to convey.

Offline Mithcoriel

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 05:06:07 am »
This is cool, how the actors through improvisation added to the language. ^^
By the way:

Quote
Neytiri zawng mengaru san Tsa-hey!

Correct me if I misunderstood, but shouldn't that be "meforu"? Since she's telling them to stop, and only after the "san" it changes to "you" since she's being quoted directly, talking to them?

Do you think Oìssss could be translated as "grrr" ?

Oh yeah, another question:
Quote
Tsu'tey sì TsakSulli lu werem = Tsu'tey and JakeSully are fighting

Is that really how you form the continuous in leNa'vi? With the word "lu"? I kind of thought the -er- would do that by itself, so that it would be "Tsu'tey sì TsakSulli werem" without the "lu"? As in "oe teraron" and not "oe lu teraron" ?

"ìley" is the actual war-cry, right? Not the name of the cry? As in, warriors would yell "ìley!!",  not that I would say "He ran toward him with an ìley" ?


« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 05:19:55 am by Mithcoriel »
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

Offline Skxawng

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 07:27:36 am »
Quote
Tsa-hey - "Oh crap!" or "Aw, hell!" (probably without the vulgar nature of the English though)

Now we know how to translate "continuous fire" into Na'vi when we're in battles on Minbari ships.


Sharlin-Class ooh yea :3


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Offline wm.annis

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 07:31:01 am »
Quote
Tsu'tey sì TsakSulli lu werem = Tsu'tey and JakeSully are fighting

Is that really how you form the continuous in leNa'vi? With the word "lu"? I kind of thought the -er- would do that by itself, so that it would be "Tsu'tey sì TsakSulli werem" without the "lu"? As in "oe teraron" and not "oe lu teraron" ?

Right.  Lu + <another verb> is a big clue something has gone awry.  Werem alone is what's needed here.
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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 07:35:14 am »
Txantsan, irayo ::) Oe kawkrr ke tsamun tslilvam futa Tsu'tey plltxe mesamsiyu a'ewan krr a Tsakìl ikranit stolä'nì ;) Set oel omum tsalì'ut a san oìsss sìk ulte tslam ralit ;) Irayo Karyur ngarusì, ma tsmukan ;)



Sawnung:

Kelaw lu oer lunit a fìtsenge ke lu san -it sìk mì lì'u a san pxun sìk:
Fìkrr, Tsu'teyä tìtakukri flä ulte mun’i Tsakä pxun.

Ulte kop kelaw lu oer lì'u a san sol. Txo fìlì'u lu san spä + <ol> sìk, tsaw zene livu san spolä sìk, kefyak? Tengtseng lu muvea kxeyey, fpìl oe: ... fte tsun poel poanit hawnu. Kxawm nìeyawr livu san fte tsivun poel poanit hivawnu.



Tslolam. Zamene oe tsive'a 'upxaret nìwotx a fì'umaw pamrel sivi fìtsenge :) San txo oe soli kxeyey tsakrr zene oel ayngati peng san ngaytxoa. ::)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 07:56:54 am by Kemaweyan »
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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 07:57:12 am »
Quote
Tsu'tey sì TsakSulli lu werem = Tsu'tey and JakeSully are fighting

Is that really how you form the continuous in leNa'vi? With the word "lu"? I kind of thought the -er- would do that by itself, so that it would be "Tsu'tey sì TsakSulli werem" without the "lu"? As in "oe teraron" and not "oe lu teraron" ?

Right.  Lu + <another verb> is a big clue something has gone awry.  Werem alone is what's needed here.

Sorry, that was a typo, I know better than that.

The violators are:
[...]
Tsa-hey (that hyphen which both prrton and I've been guessing is a slight pause as opposed to a true glottal stop)

I saw this transcribed with stress on both syllables. I think that may be what the hyphen is trying to convey.

Really? Where did you see this?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 08:24:39 am by Ftiafpi »

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 07:59:56 am »
Quote
Neytiri zawng mengaru san Tsa-hey!

Correct me if I misunderstood, but shouldn't that be "meforu"? Since she's telling them to stop, and only after the "san" it changes to "you" since she's being quoted directly, talking to them?
Yes, again another typo.

Do you think Oìssss could be translated as "grrr" ?
Yeah, I think (opinion) that this is a good translation.

"ìley" is the actual war-cry, right? Not the name of the cry? As in, warriors would yell "ìley!!",  not that I would say "He ran toward him with an ìley" ?
Yes, if it was the name of the cry then it would be listed as a noun as opposed to conv.

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2010, 08:13:34 am »
Sawnung:

Kelaw lu oer lunit a fìtsenge ke lu san -it sìk mì lì'u a san pxun sìk:
Fìkrr, Tsu'teyä tìtakukri flä ulte mun’i Tsakä pxun.
Wiya! Nìmune, oeyä kxeyey. Nga lu eyawr.

Ulte kop kelaw lu oer lì'u a san sol. Txo fìlì'u lu san spä + <ol> sìk, tsaw zene livu san spolä sìk, kefyak?
Nì'ul keyey, nga lu eyawr nìmune.

Tengtseng lu muvea kxeyey, fpìl oe: ... fte tsun poel poanit hawnu. Kxawm nìeyawr livu san fte tsivun poel poanit hivawnu.
:( Oeyä kxeyey nìmune. Fìkem lu fwa oeru lu talun pamrel si tengkrr txon. Nga lu eyawr nìwotx.

Tslolam. Zamene oe tsive'a 'upxaret nìwotx a fì'umaw pamrel sivi fìtsenge :) San txo oe soli kxeyey tsakrr zene oel ayngati peng san ngaytxoa. ::)
Ngaru si irayo fpi ngeyä srung.

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2010, 08:42:18 am »
"ìley" is the actual war-cry, right? Not the name of the cry? As in, warriors would yell "ìley!!",  not that I would say "He ran toward him with an ìley" ?
Yes, if it was the name of the cry then it would be listed as a noun as opposed to conv.

Futhermore, you can hear Tsu'tey yelling this a few times after Eytukan announces that he will lead the war party.


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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2010, 09:58:49 am »
ngaytxoa - acknowledgment of guilt and regret - CONV
[…]

First of all: thanks for sharing!

Sorry for my ignorance but IANAL, what does »CONV« stand for? I thought these to be interjections – is there another term for it?

irayo

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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2010, 12:33:10 pm »
I think it means conversational.

In an interview recently, Frommer mentioned he'd been working on different registers so I'd think this is an example.
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Re: Aylì'u nì'ul ta Karyu Pawl
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2010, 03:52:23 pm »
ngaytxoa - acknowledgment of guilt and regret - CONV
[…]

First of all: thanks for sharing!

Sorry for my ignorance but IANAL, what does »CONV« stand for? I thought these to be interjections – is there another term for it?

irayo

I would too have thought that ngaytxoa would be an interj. as well but whatever. As far as I know a conversational item is one that doesn't fit in any other linguistic category. Things like "hmmm", "gahhh", "yarrrr" etc. would be conversational items.

Futhermore, you can hear Tsu'tey yelling this a few times after Eytukan announces that he will lead the war party.
Oooo, you're right.

 

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