Author Topic: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!  (Read 2556 times)

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Offline Prrton

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2010, 07:54:13 pm »
Kxitx...

...wow. So much for "tìterkup."

Who knows, there might also be a distinction between 'death' as a count noun, like 'casualty', and 'death' as an abstract noun, like 'Death'. We seem to have a similar distinction between life/lives and Life. Or maybe it's 'dying' vs. 'death' (and 'living' vs. 'life') as suggested just now.

I was SO EXCITED when I saw «ke.r.us.ey» for the first time and actually made the connection to the etymology (the legwork for which had probably been done by roger, not sure...). Because the Na'vi can actually hear the voices of their ancestors, their concept of death and the afterlife might be completely different from that western concept of going to heaven or hell. We have no way to verify the existence of either (luke tsaheylu), so death is a really big deal for (some of) us.

I still want to know if the Na'vi typically go through a download process (fa tsaheylu) before 'death' (and if Tsu'tey's and Eytukan's experience of death without that opportunity somehow means that their spirits are LESS represented with the rest of the fizayu with/within Eywa). That would be very sad ("very sad only"), but possibly in keeping with the biologically based aspects of their 'religion' that we have seen. In general, the societies in which I've lived my life so far (South Carolina, Hawai'i, Metropolitan Tokyo, Northern California) think of "life" as "good" and "death" as "bad". But, perhaps it's not that way with them...

Now, I have to admit, that KXITX looks/sounds/feels pretty gnarly and perhaps it is the KIND of death that Tsu'tey and Eytukan experienced?? (or the RDA forces nìteng??). That might be very distinct from Grace's experience of *«terkup fte kivä/ftivem nìkerusey» (This is a great example of my breaking the rule/admonition that I just posted above, BTW. We have no concrete idea of what *nìkerusey might actually mean (to K. Pawl or a Na'vi (if anything)).

Many many cultures have VERY very different concepts of the afterlife than "average" Western society does just as Richard Dawkins sees it differently than David Eagleman (skip to #32 "Being a 'Possibillian'" after seeing the intro "Long short" (just 60 seconds long)) than Karen Armstrong than Rick Warren, etc...

I don't know PRECISELY what «kerusey» means to a Na'vi, but I really like THINKING about it.  ::)

Swoka Swizaw

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2010, 08:43:50 pm »
@Prrton (and everyone, in general)

Sorry if this is a little beyond the topic, overall. Like I've uttered before, the reach of Eywa over Eywa'eveng is total. She is all of it. More substantial a point here than the Na'vi and their connection with Eywa, is the nature of Eywa "her"self. Is She a singularity of consciousness within Pandora or as large as the planet, itself? If she is the planet, I feel that it is the next LOGICAL step to assume that Her mind, like aether, permeates all aspects of Pandora. Ayvitra Na'viä are but Her, in more coalesced forms, both in Mind and body. Long story short, when the Na'vi die, the body falls away and the "stuff" inside just becomes one with what is there. If they use the queue, that's likened to the tunnel many see during the dying process.

The Na'vi concept of death is obviously not like that of the West. For me, the Na'vi people realize death as it is in its purest, the removal of Self from a body and the regrettable end of all connections It made while in life. That aspect's what we mourn, most of all - that someone is "gone," never to be connected with again. Sure, via their connection to their ancestors, the Na'vi don't have that, but kxitx still proves tragic...
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 08:48:56 pm by Swoka Swizaw »

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2010, 01:46:13 am »
I think its a good thing that there is finally a unique (and very interesting) word for 'death'.

Assuming for the moment that the Na`vi are indeed like us in the sense they have body and spirit, a mechanism MUST exist to 'collect' spirits that die without a physical tsaheylu occurring. It may be that via tsaheylu is the 'peaceful' way to die and be collected by Eywa. But if tsaheylu doesn't happen, Eywa collects the soul through another means. This strongly implies that there is MUCH more to Eywa than we understand. I bet Eywa would continue to 'exist' even if all life on Pandora was obliterated. But this is best discussed elsewhere on this forum.

Disclaimer: I don't believe in Eywa, but I believe strongly that Eywa/Gaia is a very valid and functional concept.

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Prrton

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2010, 02:33:21 am »
@Prrton (and everyone, in general)

Sorry if this is a little beyond the topic, overall. Like I've uttered before, the reach of Eywa over Eywa'eveng is total. She is all of it.

Ma tsmuk,

Ngeyä aylì'uri 'efu futa oeta ke lu ke'u tsun pivlltxe mungwrr tsaw a lu san TAM sìk. Aysäfpìl ngeyä latsu txur vay tì'i'a a ke tsatsun keng rivikx fu livatem kaw'it. Rutxe teri fra'u a ngal kame na hapxì äieyä ngeyä, spaw nìfya ngaru prrte' livu ulte mowan nìtxan livu ayral tsayvurä a nga ftxivey fte päpeng teri wotx Eywa'evengä Nawma Sa'nokäsì.

Oeri mi lu sìpawm apxay teri tìftia tsakifkeyä Na'viyä. Ulte, fra'eyngä tìusomumto tsaw a fìtxan tsräpanten lu sìprrte' le'it a txe'lanta tìsopìlä 'erong. Skxakep frato lu oe na Karyu Teyvit a lu tute ameve a poteri oe nìio pamrel soli.

Fkor lora ayu fkeyä, ulte tìngay ayralta vuruo Eywayä nìlaw awnomum awngaru livu nìwotx! ;D


Swoka Swizaw

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2010, 08:37:37 am »
@Prrton (and everyone, in general)

Sorry if this is a little beyond the topic, overall. Like I've uttered before, the reach of Eywa over Eywa'eveng is total. She is all of it.

Ma tsmuk,

Ngeyä aylì'uri 'efu futa oeta ke lu ke'u tsun pivlltxe mungwrr tsaw a lu san TAM sìk. Aysäfpìl ngeyä latsu txur vay tì'i'a a ke tsatsun keng rivikx fu livatem kaw'it. Rutxe teri fra'u a ngal kame na hapxì äieyä ngeyä, spaw nìfya ngaru prrte' livu ulte mowan nìtxan livu ayral tsayvurä a nga ftxivey fte päpeng teri wotx Eywa'evengä Nawma Sa'nokäsì.

Oeri mi lu sìpawm apxay teri tìftia tsakifkeyä Na'viyä. Ulte, fra'eyngä tìusomumto tsaw a fìtxan tsräpanten lu sìprrte' le'it a txe'lanta tìsopìlä 'erong. Skxakep frato lu oe na Karyu Teyvit a lu tute ameve a poteri oe nìio pamrel soli.

Fkor lora ayu fkeyä, ulte tìngay ayralta vuruo Eywayä nìlaw awnomum awngaru livu nìwotx! ;D


I am sorry if my comment came off as me pushing something on you, or anyone else. :-[ It was not really directed AT you; just to your comment. I do feel the way I do, but can only unto a point that it remains abstract. I concede to the fact that this place is more for the "real" discussions about Avatar. My apologies, all around. :)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 08:40:59 am by Swoka Swizaw »

Offline Prrton

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2010, 01:30:03 pm »

I am sorry if my comment came off as me pushing something on you, or anyone else. :-[ It was not really directed AT you; just to your comment. I do feel the way I do, but can only unto a point that it remains abstract. I concede to the fact that this place is more for the "real" discussions about Avatar. My apologies, all around. :)

Oeri kea zoploti tolel! Ulte, rutxe, spivaw futa oeta kepor ke'uot lezoplo ke kolan kaw'it nìteng. Txo frapor ke lu fpìlfya peyä, fìtsengìri skxakep kepo ke za'atsu fte pivängkxo fu aysäfpìlit ’awstengyivem ulte ke latsu fayteleru kea ral a tsranten nìngay.


Swoka Swizaw

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2010, 04:06:13 pm »
Tslolam, ma Prrton. Nìngay, kea swaw swey ke lu kawkrr a krr fko fmi pivängkxo teri hem Eywayä, srak?
Understood, Prrton. Honestly, it's never easy when one tries to discuss the "will of Eywa," no? ::)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 07:02:26 pm by Swoka Swizaw »

Offline Taronyu

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2010, 06:32:04 am »
Do we know of any changes in vowel quality that occur? Especially between glides: syay would seem to me to be hard to say and keep the æ as it is.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2010, 03:06:52 pm »
I noticed that no one has picked up on the re-introduction of [p]tsaheylu[/p]. For a long time, this was in the various dictionaries as meaning 'bond (neural)'. Then one day, the word 'neural' disappeared, and this has been carried through several iterations of Taronyu's (and probably others as well) dictionary. I wonder if Pawl brought this back up to point out that the word 'neural' still really needed to be there. It also makes me wonder of there is a word for a non-neural bond, like one might have with a pet (as opposed to the bond between a man and a woman, or other 'human'). I have been calling a strong bond with an animal friend 'virtual tsaheylu'. (Is there a good Na`vi word choice for 'virtual'?)

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Offline Taronyu

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2010, 04:23:42 pm »
That disappearance is my fault. I confess, I don't like the word neural. But I decided to bring it back in.

Offline roger

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2010, 04:48:31 pm »
Do we know of any changes in vowel quality that occur? Especially between glides: syay would seem to me to be hard to say and keep the æ as it is.

We have that vowel in "shy", which is pretty close to being a homonym with "syay".

Offline Prrton

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Re: ayoeru mipa aylì'u nì'ul lu, tewti!
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2010, 10:38:45 pm »
Do we know of any changes in vowel quality that occur? Especially between glides: syay would seem to me to be hard to say and keep the æ as it is.

We have that vowel in "shy", which is pretty close to being a homonym with "syay".

I agree. I don't see why the «sy-» would need to mod «-ay» in any way.

 

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