Combining Our Efforts II

[Ftiafpi]

Finals, I guess ... and he is a busy man, after all


I'd like a confirmation on the usage of txan for temporal concepts – I stumbled across this in the Na'vi Nì'aw section. I was of the opinion that txan would mean »much (time)« / »long (period of time)« no matter what the temporal word was. So, when I wanted to say »many years«, I used txana ayzìsìt. It didn't occur to me that it could also be pxay. But I don't trust these countable/uncountable rules that apply for English, German (and other languages as well?) ...

He's still around but I imagine he could use a break. I know I would after having to grade papers.

[Kì'eyawn]

Finals, I guess ... and he is a busy man, after all


I'd like a confirmation on the usage of txan for temporal concepts – I stumbled across this in the Na'vi Nì'aw section. I was of the opinion that txan would mean »much (time)« / »long (period of time)« no matter what the temporal word was. So, when I wanted to say »many years«, I used txana ayzìsìt. It didn't occur to me that it could also be pxay. But I don't trust these countable/uncountable rules that apply for English, German (and other languages as well?) ...

Ma Plumps, i don't have the citation in front of me, but apparently there was a line Frommer translated that didn't make it into the film—something to the effect of, "short time, long time, it doesn't matter."  The line used txan and yol.

[Plumps]

Ma Plumps, i don't have the citation in front of me, but apparently there was a line Frommer translated that didn't make it into the film—something to the effect of, "short time, long time, it doesn't matter."  The line used txan and yol.

Yes, I remember that message – that's when we got clarification on yol not being »long time«
Now, I want to know if that holds true for all temporal aspects?
In English we have »much time« (uncountable) but »many years« (countable)
In German it's »viel Zeit« (uncountable) but »viele Jahre« (countable)

Maybe it's just a spleen right now *shrug*

[Carborundum]

Has this been sent to Frommer yet? If not, reckon that the question I had a while ago regarding the meaning of fpìl warrants inclusion.
The question was whether fpìl can be used to express opinion and belief as it can in English, or if it refers only to the cognitive process of thinking.

[Swoka Swizaw]

He's still around but I imagine he could use a break. I know I would after having to grade papers.

Yeah...

[Ftiafpi]

Has this been sent to Frommer yet? If not, reckon that the question I had a while ago regarding the meaning of fpìl warrants inclusion.
The question was whether fpìl can be used to express opinion and belief as it can in English, or if it refers only to the cognitive process of thinking.

I thought we had a ruling on this? I may just be making that up though.

[Carborundum]

Has this been sent to Frommer yet? If not, reckon that the question I had a while ago regarding the meaning of fpìl warrants inclusion.
The question was whether fpìl can be used to express opinion and belief as it can in English, or if it refers only to the cognitive process of thinking.

I thought we had a ruling on this? I may just be making that up though.

No definite conclusion was reached in the thread in question at least. If we do have a ruling, I would be very interested in hearing it.

[Kì'eyawn]

I can't seem to find it right now, but what about that quote from Karyu Pawl when he said, "I didn't think there was anyone who could speak Na'vi..." (or something like that)?

[kewnya txamew'itan]

I can't seem to find it right now, but what about that quote from Karyu Pawl when he said, "I didn't think there was anyone who could speak Na'vi..." (or something like that)?

Just looked it up, it was "fparmìl oel futa".

[Carborundum]

I can't seem to find it right now, but what about that quote from Karyu Pawl when he said, "I didn't think there was anyone who could speak Na'vi..." (or something like that)?

Just looked it up, it was "fparmìl oel futa".

Yes, that example was brought up in the thread. However, one might interpret it as meaning "I was thinking this thing...", i.e. not as expressing belief, but a statement of previously having entertained a certain thought.

[Kì'eyawn]

I can't seem to find it right now, but what about that quote from Karyu Pawl when he said, "I didn't think there was anyone who could speak Na'vi..." (or something like that)?

Just looked it up, it was "fparmìl oel futa".

Yes, that example was brought up in the thread. However, one might interpret it as meaning "I was thinking this thing...", i.e. not as expressing belief, but a statement of previously having entertained a certain thought.

Tam, ma Carborundum; set oel tìketengit tslam.

[wm.annis]

Word Meanings (well, lexical morphology)

We have a single example of reduplication: {letrrtrr}.  Is this iterative sense generalizable, for things like {nìtxontxon}, or even {nìvulvul po CLIMB utralit} "he climbed the tree branch by branch"? {nìtskxetskxe oe zola'u ka kilvan} "I went across the river rock-by-rock"?  Or more out there yet, {Tutetute holahaw} "Person-by-person (they) (fell) asleep"?

[Plumps]

{nìkxetsekxetse oe zola'u ka kilvan} "I went across the river rock-by-rock"? 

*hrh* That would be »... tail by tail« – but I like it
I think you mean {nìtskxetskxe}

[wm.annis]

I think you mean {nìtskxetskxe}

D'oh!  That's not the first time I've confused those words.

[wm.annis]

Vocabulary/Lexicon

Ideophones?  (I think they're called "expressives" in Malay/Indonesian linguistics.)

[Kì'eyawn]

Vocabulary/Lexicon

Ideophones?  (I think they're called "expressives" in Malay/Indonesian linguistics.)

Ooh, yeah; good call.  I'd like to have some of those.

[Kì'eyawn]

Kaltxì, ma smuk.  Random thought (apologies if it's been brought up before):

Does lenition occur on proper names?  Like, does fpi+ Tsu'tey become *fpi Su'tey? 

The only real-word example i know of is consonant changes in Turkish:  Some suffixes cause lenition (i suppose that would be the term) to some consonants at the ends of the words they affix to.  So, for example, if you want to say "my angel," that's melek+im-->meleğim.  If, however, you have a friend named Angel (about whom you're feeling possessive), Melek+im instead becomes Melek'im.  The important point here, though, is that even though the original spelling is retained in the case of proper nouns, the pronunciation still changes as usual.  But Na'vi, obviously, doesn't actually have a writing system.

So, what do you think?

[Lance R. Casey]

(Catching up on stuff)

So, what do you think?

That it is a good question, and it also touches upon a more general one. If I am to say, say, "in his village", what happens if mì is juxtaposed with peyä tsray? Do we get an ambiguous *mì feyä tsray, or does the lenition "jump" to produce *mì peyä sray (which, of course, is also ambiguous) -- or is there no lenition at all? Same goes for things like "at the big tree": *ro sawla utral or *ro tsawla utral? Now, the situation can easily be avoided by reordering the words and/or cliticizing the adpositions -- and perhaps this is even mandated (or at least preferred) in such cases.

[Prrton]

(Catching up on stuff)

So, what do you think?

That it is a good question, and it also touches upon a more general one. If I am to say, say, "in his village", what happens if mì is juxtaposed with peyä tsray? Do we get an ambiguous *mì feyä tsray, or does the lenition "jump" to produce *mì peyä sray (which, of course, is also ambiguous) -- or is there no lenition at all? Same goes for things like "at the big tree": *ro sawla utral or *ro tsawla utral? Now, the situation can easily be avoided by reordering the words and/or cliticizing the adpositions -- and perhaps this is even mandated (or at least preferred) in such cases.

Partial answer... 2nd line of the Spiral Song.

Lenition does not "reach across" an intervening element to affect the noun targeted by the adposition.

However, in the example we don't have our full satisfaction.

I am under the impression that lenition does affect pre-nouns, but could be very wrong.

  e.g.: Ro satseng yolom fol.

[Kì'eyawn]

Good catch, ma Prrton.