Combining our efforts

[roger]

Na'vi is not the property of Fox. Or of Cameron. Or of Frommer, for that matter. You can't own a language, at least not under US copyright and patent law. They could trademark the name "Na'vi", though they haven't. But Frommer does need to work with Fox, and that's as important as legal ownership. We accord Frommer de facto ownership of Na'vi because we respect him and trust he'll do a better job with it than we would, and to keep the project from splintering.

[omängum fra'uti]

A few things I was wondering about...  Not sure if anyone has brought it up yet.

Can the causative be used with copulative verbs like "lu", "slu" and "tok"?  What would be the correct usage?
As an ex. "Slayu nga Na'viyä hapxì" - you will become part of the people.  Say someone was explaining what needed to be done, and ended by saying "And that will cause you to become part of the people" - Sleykayu tsakemìl nga? Na'viyä hapxìt" - what case does nga get there, does it become ngati or ngaru?  Or is that simply not possible and instead you'd need to say "Tsakemta slayu nga Na'viyä hapxì"?

We have the lu + dative for possession...  But what about slu + dative for get/recieve?  (slu oeru tìpawm - I will get an answer?)

Can the pe prefix (/suffix) be used with any noun, or does it stick to the "question words"?  Can you say, for example, "p(e)aylì'u" for "What words"?  (Making a guess that in that form the e would be elided.)

[Keylstxatsmen]

A few things I was wondering about...  Not sure if anyone has brought it up yet.

Can the causative be used with copulative verbs like "lu", "slu" and "tok"?  What would be the correct usage?
As an ex. "Slayu nga Na'viyä hapxì" - you will become part of the people.  Say someone was explaining what needed to be done, and ended by saying "And that will cause you to become part of the people" - Sleykayu tsakemìl nga? Na'viyä hapxìt" - what case does nga get there, does it become ngati or ngaru?  Or is that simply not possible and instead you'd need to say "Tsakemta slayu nga Na'viyä hapxì"?

Sleyku is "to produce" in the wiktionary, so it is possible. 

I don't know if it makes sense in your example sentence though. 

-Keyl

[NeotrekkerZ]

"And that will cause you to become part of the people" - Sleykayu tsakemìl nga? Na'viyä hapxìt" - what case does nga get there, does it become ngati or ngaru?  Or is that simply not possible and instead you'd need to say "Tsakemta slayu nga Na'viyä hapxì"?

I believe it would take the accusative because, and correct me if I'm wrong here, in English a similar sentence breaks down as follows:

I became a monster to you meaning "you now see me as a monster."

Maybe Na'vi works differently with slu though.  It's definitely a good question to include in the next batch.

[omängum fra'uti]

Sleyku is "to produce" in the wiktionary, so it is possible. 

I don't know if it makes sense in your example sentence though. 

-Keyl

Right, that's why I included that example.

I became a monster to you meaning "you now see me as a monster."

Ngaru slolu oe vrrtep.
I became a monster(demon) to you

Though that strikes me as idiomatic to English.

[jasgor9]

Getting some words for emotions would be nice.

I agree.

[NeotrekkerZ]

Everything with "become" seems idiomatic to me in a way, except for your scenario and perhaps the following:

You made me become a member of the community/club. 

Though we don't have words to translate this, I still tend to think "member" there is a D.O.

[omängum fra'uti]

And so we're back around to my example, as you just gave the exact meaning of my example.

[NeotrekkerZ]

The circle of life...sorry couldn't help myself.

Ok, I'm still not going to speak for Na'vi, but I did find the following for English:

http://www.enotes.com/grammar/q-and-a/what-subject-object-verb-these-questions-sentences-138013

I didn't have time to check his sourcing, but at least it's a starting point.

On a completely separate note, how do I attach a link to a word or phrase of my choosing?  For example writing "become" and having it link to the site above?

[omängum fra'uti]

That doesn't really clarify much except to agree that "become" in English is a linking verb (AKA copulative verb) which agrees with the known usage in Na'vi, and my example above, and that still leaves us with the question of how the causative infix applies there.

For links, simply click the "insert hyperlink" button, then instead of putting the URL in the middle, change the first "url" it gives you into "url=your/url/here", then add the text you want to see between the url and /url.

[omängum fra'uti]

Back on topic, another couple....

In Avatar, it sounds like Neytiri says "Oel pot tspìmìyang".  Is this a mis-hearing, or is there really two tense infixes given to provide the "had been about to" phrasing?

Personal pronouns seem to like -eyä as the genitive suffix, but no other words we've seen get this treatment.  It there some general rule we don't know, or is it really as simple as the pronouns get -eyä?  If it's the latter, does that extend to gender suffixed, such as poeyä or poaneyä (Or as William suggested, poenyä, which nicely keeps the masculine and feminine versions the same number of syllables)?

[roger]

In Avatar, it sounds like Neytiri says "Oel pot tspìmìyang".  Is this a mis-hearing, or is there really two tense infixes given to provide the "had been about to" phrasing?

Personal pronouns seem to like -eyä as the genitive suffix, but no other words we've seen get this treatment.  It there some general rule we don't know, or is it really as simple as the pronouns get -eyä?  If it's the latter, does that extend to gender suffixed, such as poeyä or poaneyä (Or as William suggested, poenyä, which nicely keeps the masculine and feminine versions the same number of syllables)?

The double tense is clear in the German and Spanish dubs too: "I was just" (ìm) "about to" (ìy) "kill him".

I'd expect poeyä, poanä.

[omängum fra'uti]

Right, but I don't want to make assumptions at this point.

[wm.annis]

Personal pronouns seem to like -eyä as the genitive suffix, but no other words we've seen get this treatment. 

I am 99% certain the -eyä analysis is incorrect.  The pronouns take the usual -(y)ä, but sometimes take a vowel change in the stem, too.  In the Language Log post, Frommer said that "changes to the noun base sometimes occur with the Genitive," so it seems better to think of nga > ngeyä as that sort of change, rather than as a new ending.

My worry is that there will be non-pronoun stems that undergo this change we haven't learned about.

[omängum fra'uti]

You're probably right but it seems like it also brings back elided vowels, as in the oeng->oengeyä case, so it's more than just a simple vowel movement.

[omängum fra'uti]

How do "si" based verbs work as far as modified parts of speech?  I know we have "tsamsiyu" as one example, but is that just a James Cameron thing, or is that a normal construct for doer of si-verb?  (And why is it tsamsiyu rather than just tsamtu?)  How does the participle enter into this...  For example if I wanted to say a "Helping person" or a "Filling meal", would it be based off the si verb form, or would it just be a modification of the root word...  (lesrung / leteya?)

(This next two maybe someone here can answer rather than having to pass onto Karyu Pawl...)

What is the difference between "hawnu" and "tìhawnu si"?

For the name of the Na'vi "Golden rule" it uses tìrusey for the gerund form of live...  Obviously tìrey in this sense is life.  But at other times you have said to use the tì- nominilization to form a gerund, and gave "Tìtaron lu lehrrap" (hunting is dangerous) as an example.  In other cases, the nominilized form is a different meaning as in the rey case, such as 'eyng = v. answer and tì'eyng = n. answer.
(Or am I just being English-only speaker dense again, and something like "an answering" and "an answer" are the same thing in other languages?)

[roger]

I think you got it w your last suggestion.

Is there a "tìhawnu si"? I don't remember seeing it.

[omängum fra'uti]

Eytukan's last words.  "Omatikayaru tìhawnu sivi"

[Skyinou]

How do "si" based verbs work as far as modified parts of speech?  I know we have "tsamsiyu" as one example, but is that just a James Cameron thing, or is that a normal construct for doer of si-verb?  (And why is it tsamsiyu rather than just tsamtu?)  How does the participle enter into this...  For example if I wanted to say a "Helping person" or a "Filling meal", would it be based off the si verb form, or would it just be a modification of the root word...  (lesrung / leteya?)

If tsamsìyu is not from Cameron, it is maybe because "tsam = war" is not an action, it's a concept. You can be "a person who hunt = taronyu" but not "a person who war = tsamyu".
As far as I can not find contrary examples, I would welcome those you can find. (With "tu" it seems different)

What is the difference between "hawnu" and "tìhawnu si"?

First, do we know if "tìhawnu sì" exists?
[Edit]: Then from Eytukan words: "tìhawnu" can be the protection, and "tìhawnu sì = acting as a protection" and not "protect"? (With Neytiri being omitted because obvious)
The first one being intransitive (with dative for the one being protected), and the second one not.
"acting as a protection for/to someone" but "protecting someone from something"

(Or am I just being English-only speaker dense again, and something like "an answering" and "an answer" are the same thing in other languages?)

I don't find a difference between "an answering" and "an answer" from my french point of view. You can translate directly "tì'useyng" into french, but it is not correct. It can be specificaly allowed sometimes, but normally not.

[Hawnuyu atxen]

Kaltxì!

"tìhawnu" would be an abstract noun derived from hawnu, so it should mean protection...
But for what's the difference...