Combining our efforts

Started by wm.annis, February 01, 2010, 04:31:03 PM

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kewnya txamew'itan

Good point. He certainly does have better things to do, he even gets paid for some of them!  ;D
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
If you want to speak na'vi to me, friend me on facebook (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)

numena'viyä hapxì amezamkivohinve
learnnavi's

Ftiafpi

Yeah, isn't this midterm season?

'eylan na'viyä

i dont know if this allready found a way into a mail to frommer or an answer, but as far as i know there is no knowlege about it yet:

there are 2 words for "and"; "ulte" connects sentences whereas "sì" connects expressions as far as i know.
the 1. question is: are there also 2 words for "or" or is "fu" used in both cases ?
2. question: is there an expression(s) for "either or" ?

Ftiafpi

Just for people that are following this thread but not the language updates forum in general we have a preliminary response:

http://forum.learnnavi.org/language-updates/combined-answers-1-%28feb-16%29/

omängum fra'uti

Updated my list on page 2 to mark questions that have been answered.  Now I jsut need to update it to include all the questions I haven't gotten around to adding yet.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

NeotrekkerZ

Ma omängum fra'uti,

You can cross off atan as illumination if you want. 

I don't know if this has been asked yet, but as a possible future question:  If a prefix/suffix results in a diphthong, is it pronounced as such?  E.g.

X a-yey           is it ay.ey or a.yey?
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya'ot a oe tswayon!

roger

Quote from: NeotrekkerZ on February 16, 2010, 09:26:53 PM
I don't know if this has been asked yet, but as a possible future question:  If a prefix/suffix results in a diphthong, is it pronounced as such?  E.g.

X a-yey           is it ay.ey or a.yey?

I've asked it on my own, in the opposite form: is ay-eyktan ay.eyk or a.yeyk? No answer yet, but I think it probably follows the morpheme boundaries when speaking slowly for instruction, but in quick speech F runs things together: a final consonant on one word becomes the onset to the initial vowel of the next. AFAIK there is no phonemic distinction between ay.ey and a.yey, so I doubt the morphological distinction is maintained.

Lance R. Casey

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on February 16, 2010, 10:30:38 AM
Updated my list on page 2 to mark questions that have been answered.  Now I jsut need to update it to include all the questions I haven't gotten around to adding yet.
In that case I'd like to repeat this pair. The first question is a simple one as it stands, but it concerns itself with a very basic feature of the spoken language. The second could either serve to identify an erroneous source, or possibly illuminate an interesting grammatical mechanism.

(Something else which has occurred to me is what happens when prefixes are applied to words like oeyk. I'm assuming that the plural series would come out as *meweyk, *pxeweyk, ayoeyk/*ayweyk, the demonstratives as *fìweyk, *tsaweyk, etc. More generally, how far does sandhi extend in Na'vi?)

// Lance R. Casey

Erimeyz

Well, William included some version of my question, and Karyu Pawl gave us an answer.  So now I have two more questions for our collective mind to ask:

1) What are the trial forms?

2) Can can normally transitive verbs be used intransitively, and if so, how?

Both questions have been answered already, but only in private email which the recipients do not wish to share.  A public answer would be nice to have.

  - Eri

wm.annis

First, Karyu Pawl said that he'll answer more of the questions in the first batch I sent him, so I'll give him some time to do that before sending off a new batch.

So, another question from me...

I'm about 95% confident that oe, when it takes suffixes, though still written oe, is pronounced we-.  Is this correct, and if so, what are the rules?

Kì'eyawn

Quote from: wm.annis on February 17, 2010, 10:12:33 AM
I'm about 95% confident that oe, when it takes suffixes, though still written oe, is pronounced we-.  Is this correct, and if so, what are the rules?

I'm pretty sure i read that the way this works is that oe sounds like "we" when a suffix adds another syllable to the word; so oel is still o•el, but oeru sounds like we•ru.  But i'm afraid i don't remember where i got that idea, so i'll bow out and hope someone can confirm that.

Eywa ngahu
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

wm.annis

Quote from: tigermind on February 17, 2010, 10:59:54 AMI'm pretty sure i read that the way this works is that oe sounds like "we" when a suffix adds another syllable to the word; so oel is still o•el,

Unfortunately, I hear oel quite distinctly as wel.

Hawnuyu atxen

My favourite example for this is when Karyu Frommer pronounced "Oeyä eana txìm atsawl"... that "oeyä" really sound like "oweya", or something like that...
"Hrrap rä'ä si olo'ur smuktuä." ; "Ke'u ke lu ngay. Frakemit tung." (Assassin's Creed)

Nikre tsa'usìn!

Ftiafpi

Quote from: wm.annis on February 17, 2010, 11:02:52 AM
Quote from: tigermind on February 17, 2010, 10:59:54 AMI'm pretty sure i read that the way this works is that oe sounds like "we" when a suffix adds another syllable to the word; so oel is still o•el,

Unfortunately, I hear oel quite distinctly as wel.

My non-linguist guess is that in a word composed of entirely vowels the vowels do not glide together as usual, but that's just a guess.

'eylan na'viyä

i dont know where it has been discussed but i remmber that nobody had an answer:

how do you indicate the case for a quote with "san" and/or "sìk" ?

NeotrekkerZ

My guess is since it is a direct quote it would be treated as an independent sentence.
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya'ot a oe tswayon!

'eylan na'viyä

so does that mean that you only quote sentences with san+sìk but not words ?
its seems reasonable, but ive seen it for single words quite often, and i dont know a rule about that.

NeotrekkerZ

Oh, I see what you're getting at.  I'm not sure there, but again my guess is that it is still a direct quote, so whatever word the person said is stated exactly whether the ending on the word in your sentence is grammatically correct or not.

A possible question for the next batch for Frommer:

1.  As a follow up to "where,"  If you were to say I don't know where to go, would you have to have to literally say "I don't know where I go to" since the a separates two clauses, or could you do some sort of subjunctive construction?  Personally I think Oe ke omum tsengit a kivä sounds pretty cool.

Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya'ot a oe tswayon!

Erimeyz

#98
san and sìk are always used for direct quotations.  You could quote a sentence, or a single word, but whatever you quote is expressed in exactly the same way that the original speaker expressed it (or would have expressed it, if you're quoting hypothetically).

The clearest example we have is in an email from Frommer (scroll down to the Jan 21 email labeled "How about ... How do you say X..."):

Quote
Suppose the sentence is, "Eytukan said he would go, but I don't believe him."
Everything converts to direct speech, so it would be:
Poltxe Eytukan san oe kayä sìk, slä oel pot ke spaw.
Everything converts to direct speech, so "Eytukan said he would go" becomes "Eytukan said quote I will go unquote".  Even if what Eytukan really said was "I want to ride my ikran and travel to the lands of the farthest tribes", when you're reporting what he said you phrase it as if you were repeating his directly spoken words, even though you're summarizing or interpreting rather than quoting precisely.

So with respect to quoting single words, you put them in whatever case the original speaker put them in (or hypothetical case the hypothetical speaker hypothetically put them in, if you're quoting hypothetically).

"Who did he say hunts hexapedes?" "He said 'Neytiri.'" Po poltxe san Neytiril sìk.
"What did he say Neytiri hunts?" "He said 'hexapedes.'" Po poltxe san ayerikit sìk.

"Welcome to Macdonald's Pandora, can I take your order?" "What's that first item on your menu?" "It says 'Hexapede McNuggets.'" Tsa plltxe san ayit yerikä sìk. It says quote bits of yerik unquote.

 - Eri

'eylan na'viyä

the thing with direct speech is clear, but if you see the the quoted phrase as an object you might think you need to write it that way:

Poltxe Eytukanìl sanit oe kayä sìk, slä oel pot ke spaw.

instead of the original

Poltxe Eytukan san oe kayä sìk, slä oel pot ke spaw.

i see that frommer didn't do it, but maybe it is needed/usefull to mark the case in other situations.
e.g. when there is a dative too, or with other verbs.

allthough i think it might sound a bit strange to add an acc. ending to another word than a noun.