Author Topic: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words  (Read 1801 times)

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Offline Plumps

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Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« on: August 29, 2013, 02:31:57 am »
Ma frapo,

in Tìtstewan’s Pronoun Guide, and looking at the Dictionary, the question came up of how to pronounce the words connected with oe (stress and whether oe is treated as one or two syllable(s)).

Here is what I got from Karyu Pawl:

pronounpronounce as
oengo.ENG.
Quote from: K. Pawl, 28 Aug 2013
The stress on the second syllable "feels" right here: it puts the emphasis on "I and YOU," and it contrasts better with oe.
After that oe becomes we- before case endings:
pronounpronounce as
oengat(i)we.NGAT/we.NGA.ti
oengeyäwe.NGE.yä
oengar(u)we.NGAR/we.NGA.ru
oengariwe.NGA.ri

This stress on the ‘you’-part of inclusive forms is also applied to the trial (which, I recognised, are not listed in the Dictionary yet). So,
pronounpronounce as
pxoengpxo.ENG
pxoengalpxo.e.NGAL
pxoengat(i)pxo.e.NGAT/pxo.e.NGA.ti
pxoengeyäpxo.e.NGE.yä
pxoengar(u)pxo.e.NGAR/pxo.e.NGA.ru
pxoengaripxo.e.NGA.ri

The exclusive trial forms (pxoe, pxoel etc.) are stressed on the first syllable.

And what we already got right is that all forms of the long plural (except for ayoe of course) are pronounced aywe-

The pronunciation of oe as we- before suffixes is applied to combinations with adpositions as well, to which he said:

Quote from: K. Pawl, 28 Aug 2013
Even in careful speech, oeru and oehu are pronounced "weru" and "wehu."
(which is a bit of a redefinition, IIRC. I got it in my head somewhere that he said at one point that in careful speech oeru could also be pronounced as 3 syllables :-\  but be that as it may…)

Most of this was discussed and not via email, so I can’t quote that much. If I missed something or got something wrong, ma Prrton, please chime in ;)


edit: typos
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 03:49:50 am by Plumps »

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 06:14:12 am »
Soooo, I should go to change oeng to oeng?

Edit:
oengaru etc. to oengaru?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 06:18:08 am by Tìtstewan »

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 07:06:39 am »
well, this confirmation doesn't make me too happy (pronounce oe as we-), but it's rule now and must be followed. After few weeks it will be no problem.
Fortunately, I write more than speak, what makes things easier ;D ;D ;D
Quote
Soooo, I should go to change oeng to oeng?
Sure. ng  is not syllable, it's just letter
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 07:12:13 am »
Well, I will be sure, before I touching the 43k code monster... :-X

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Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 09:29:18 am »
Well, there go my diphthongs on the "oe"s.  Sad, I like a good diphthong.  Oh well.  I will adapt. :)
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 09:45:08 am »
Quote
Soooo, I should go to change oeng to oeng?
Sure. ng  is not syllable, it's just letter
But eng is ;)

Well, there go my diphthongs on the "oe"s.  Sad, I like a good diphthong.  Oh well.  I will adapt. :)
Technically, oe is not a diphthong ;D  Sorry, I’ll stop being a *sìlronsemtxìm ;D

Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 09:54:23 am »
Firstly, that was a joke.

Secondly, I'm not knowledgeable enough to argue with you.

Thirdly:
Quote
Diphthongs often form when separate vowels are run together in rapid speech during a conversation.
from Wikipedia because of #2 and #1.
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Offline Kamean

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 01:13:51 pm »
Quote
Here is what I got from Karyu Pawl:
Irayo! I have always pronounced that way. :)
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2013, 09:04:00 pm »
Quote
Here is what I got from Karyu Pawl:
Irayo! I have always pronounced that way. :)

I have always used the now-illegal 'careful speech' forms. That started to change during the 'Na'vi 102 lesson' at Avatarmeet this year. Although some of this has been hard to remember because I was in excruciating pain at the time (my right hip was 'blown out'), there were some very siginificant things presented there, that makes this worth reviewing by everyone.

This information is important (and different) enough that, IMHO, it belongs in a new appendix of the dictionary. I would offer to write such a beast (it ultimately needs to be 'translated' into LaTeX), but I think Tìtstewan should have first crack at it because he has done a lot of the groundwork. This appendix should show the various pronoun forms in a compact manner, and show the special rules involved in pronouncing this very important class of words. Additionally, all these words that appear in the dictionary need to be checked for the proper IPA. I suspect we have a mix of 'old' and 'new' forms.

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2013, 11:53:19 pm »
Why not just put the proper IPA in all the current entries, and in The Pronoun Guide (by Tìtstewan), put the Proper stress / IPA, and in Nutshell and Horen, do that as well?

I honestly don't think there is anything shocking or crazy about these pronouns. It just has one 3-part rule:

If it ends in "oe", then the "oe" is two syllables and the stress on the "o part".
Else if it ends in "ng" and a case/suffix is applied, then the "oe" is one syllable, the "a" from nga comes back, and the stress is on "nga".
Else if it ends in "ng", then the "oe" is one syllable and the stress is on the "eng part".

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2013, 03:15:55 am »
Maybe you are right. But I need to post that rule in bold type and memorize it!

Is anyone currently maintaining NiaN? Can anyone even maintain it?

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2013, 03:18:06 am »
Maybe you are right. But I need to post that rule in bold type and memorize it!

Is anyone currently maintaining NiaN? Can anyone even maintain it?

NiaN is currently being revised.

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2013, 04:13:04 am »
Maybe you are right. But I need to post that rule in bold type and memorize it!

Is anyone currently maintaining NiaN? Can anyone even maintain it?

NiaN is currently being revised.

Txantsan nìwotx! That IS a good thing. A lot of folks here got there start in Na'vi with this document. Is it NeoTrekkerz who is updating it?

Yawey ngahu!
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Re: Confirmation on pronunciation of oe words
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2013, 11:15:16 am »
Maybe you are right. But I need to post that rule in bold type and memorize it!

Is anyone currently maintaining NiaN? Can anyone even maintain it?

NiaN is currently being revised.

Txantsan nìwotx! That IS a good thing. A lot of folks here got there start in Na'vi with this document. Is it NeoTrekkerz who is updating it?

No, NeoTrekkerz has given NiaN Revision Team a copy of the source document and it is being revised on his behalf, and returned to him for final say before publication.

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