Author Topic: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)  (Read 20671 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline roger

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
  • Karma: 22
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2010, 05:31:01 am »
Why are we assuming that the numbers between zam and mezam are single words? They may well be linked with , and even if not, be thought of as more than one word.

Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2010, 05:49:37 am »
Somewhere in one of Frommers interviews or posts I've read that Na'vi builds words like German by clustering basic words together to form a new one and not like English where the basic words usually remain separate.

example for numbers: 1425
= Eintausendvierhundertfünfundzwanzig  in German
= One thousand four hundred and twenty five  in English
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline roger

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
  • Karma: 22
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2010, 06:16:44 am »
Somewhere in one of Frommers interviews or posts I've read that Na'vi builds words like German by clustering basic words together to form a new one and not like English where the basic words usually remain separate.

example for numbers: 1425
= Eintausendvierhundertfünfundzwanzig  in German
= One thousand four hundred and twenty five  in English
Yeah, but even German has an "and" in there.

Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2010, 06:26:18 am »
The "und" is there only because German turns the last two numberes out of order:
English: twenty five
German: fünf.und.zwanzig (= 5 + 20)
Na'vi: mevomrr (25 oct.)
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline roger

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
  • Karma: 22
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2010, 07:10:10 am »
The "und" is there only because German turns the last two numberes out of order:
English: twenty five
German: fünf.und.zwanzig (= 5 + 20)
Na'vi: mevomrr (25 oct.)
But the German would still be intelligible w/o the und. I'm just saying we don't know what Na'vi does between zam and mezam, or even if it's standardized.

Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2010, 07:23:08 am »
The "und" is there only because German turns the last two numberes out of order:
English: twenty five
German: fünf.und.zwanzig (= 5 + 20)
Na'vi: mevomrr (25 oct.)
But the German would still be intelligible w/o the und. I'm just saying we don't know what Na'vi does between zam and mezam, or even if it's standardized.
No, "fünfzwanzig" is gramatically wrong and "fünf zwanzig" could be interpreted as 5 x 20 or 520
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Na'rìghawnu

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
  • Karma: 22
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2010, 07:25:18 am »
Quote
But the German would still be intelligible w/o the und.

 ???

No, it surely isn't intelligible, at least not as it is now.
If a person would say "fünf zwanzig", I'm quite sure that I'd not know, that he means "fünfundzwanzig".
"Fünf zwanzig" simply doesn't make any sense.
Maybe 520 or 5.20 (Euro) ...

E. g. "Das macht fünf zwanzig." (lit.: "This makes five twenty") is understood as "The price is 5.20 (Euro)". No German speaker would understand, that you could mean 25 (Euro). This is for sure!
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 07:31:08 am by Na'rìghawnu »

Offline Erimeyz

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 555
  • Karma: 33
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2010, 08:27:24 am »
Somewhere in one of Frommers interviews or posts I've read that Na'vi builds words like German by clustering basic words together to form a new one and not like English where the basic words usually remain separate.

Can you find that interview or post?  I don't remember seeing anything from Frommer in that regard.

We know that some words are formed by compounds, for example yomtìng 'feed' from yom 'eat' + tìng 'give.'  But we know that some other compound-like words keep the parts separate: eltu si 'pay attention' from eltu 'brain' + si 'do'.  Okay, technically 'si' is an auxilliary verb, but still.  I don't think we can say as a general principle that Na'vi likes cramming words together, especially for something as long as mezamevolaw.

  - Eri

Online Mako

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1633
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 43
  • Ketsran, tstunwi livu.
    • Learn Na'vi at Kelutral.org
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2010, 08:59:49 am »
This is what I've come up with so far. If two "m" would come together I reduced them to "m".
The structure is pretty straight forward until 107 (octal) but then it gets a bit more complicated ...

So is Tsu'roen right? This was how I thought you would count, but I want to make sure that he/she's right.

Offline Payoang

  • LearnNavi Founder
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2457
  • Karma: 171
    • Learn Na'vi
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2010, 10:46:04 am »
Added a little script that calculates the spelling of a number. http://www.learnnavi.org/navi-vocabulary/#numbers

Offline Thorinbur

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 871
  • Karma: 26
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2010, 11:16:07 am »
Hahaha!
23456(in octal) = mezazapxevozatsìzamrrvofu

Irayo! Great news!
BTW: script failed with this num
made 1253*8 + 6 and decidet to translate it to: undefinedvofu
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 11:22:16 am by Thorinbur »
oel kame futa oel kekame ke'u

Offline Plumps

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6230
  • Karma: 224
  • ’Ivong Na’vi
    • Aylì'uä Ramunong (Pìlok)
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2010, 11:26:03 am »
Added a little script that calculates the spelling of a number. http://www.learnnavi.org/navi-vocabulary/#numbers

That's great! Thanks a lot for that!

Offline Nayumeie

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 2
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2010, 11:28:16 am »
Ok, so for those of us who don't understand octal, can you explain in simple terms? I don't understand how numbers are combined.
"Base-eight is just like base-ten... if you're missing two fingers."
--Tom Lehrer,

Offline Prrton

  • Eyktan
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2010, 03:25:06 pm »
A few days ago, I sent Paul Frommer an e-mail asking about the Na'vi numbers (there were other questions, too, but that was the only one that got answered). His response:

On a related note: Squeeeee!

EDIT: So here we have the full chart (as I see it):

0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
0   vol   mevol   pxevol   tsìvol   mrrvol   puvol   kivol
1’aw    volaw   mevolaw   pxevolaw   tsìvolaw   mrrvolaw   puvolaw   kivolaw
2mune   vomun   mevomun   pxevomun   tsìvomun   mrrvomun   puvomun   kivomun
3pxey   vopey   mevopey   pxevopey   tsìvopey   mrrvopey   puvopey   kivopey
4tsìng   vosìng   mevosìng   pxevosìng   tsìvosìng   mrrvosìng   puvosìng   kivosìng
5mrr   vomrr   mevomrr   pxevomrr   tsìvomrr   mrrvomrr   puvomrr   kivomrr
6pukap   vofu   mevofu   pxevofu   tsìvofu   mrrvofu   puvofu   kivofu
7kinä   vohin   mevohin   pxevohin   tsìvohin   mrrvohin   puvohin   kivohin

x1   combining   x8   x64   x512   x4096
1’aw    -aw   vol   zam   vozam   zazam
2mune   -mun   mevol   mezam   mevozam   mezazam
3pxey   -pey   pxevol   pxezam   pxevozam   pxezazam
4tsìng   -sìng   tsìvol   tsìzam   tsìvozam   tsìzazam
5mrr   -mrr   mrrvol   mrrzam   mrrvozam   mrrzazam
6pukap   -fu   puvol   puzam   puvozam   puzazam
7kinä   -hin   kivol   kizam   kivozam   kizazam

I'm not 100% sure how the zam forms combine to add a number in the ones place. It's possible that you just make another word, but the vol forms don't. So is 66 zammun, zamun, or zam mune? I think I'd put my money on zamun, slä ke omum oe.

Fì'uri nìfrau sweya kawngunil oeyä längu nìwotx! Oeyä elturi teriholpxay ke lu tìsìlpey nìngay nìwotx. Kxawm txo fya'o a tsun rel sivi nìholpxay ke livu tengfya fya'o nìkll nìvomun ha oer tìtsun tlsivam KWAWM kop ziyeva'u. Slä, nìngay nìteng 'it'evi slolu oe. Tìngay awngar lu holpxay nìwotx ta K. Pawl a fìtxeleri oeru prrte' leiu nìhawng, slä sngusä'iset zene nivume! Eywa oehu!  :'(

_______________________

Offline Ngeyä Sa'nok

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 2
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2010, 04:56:22 pm »
So... lets say I wanted to say that there were 9 of something... How do I express 9?

Offline wm.annis

  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3111
  • Karma: 144
  • Translate the meaning, not the words!
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2010, 04:58:24 pm »
So... lets say I wanted to say that there were 9 of something... How do I express 9?

volaw: 8 + 1.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Tsu'roen

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • Karma: 22
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2010, 05:20:35 pm »
9 decimal is 11 octal. So a for a Na'vi 8+1 is 11
"There are many dangers on Pandora, and one of the subtlest is that you may come to love it too much" ~ Dr. Grace Augustine

"You have a strong heart. No fear. But stupid!  Ignorant like a child!" ~ Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at’ite

10x (1x 2D, 3x Real 3D, 6x IMAX 3D)
1x Special Ed. (1x IMAX 3D)

Offline Ngeyä Sa'nok

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 2
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2010, 05:58:00 pm »
So... lets say I wanted to say that there were 9 of something... How do I express 9?

volaw: 8 + 1.

Thanks so much!

So I've gotten conversion from base 10 to base 8 down... but how do I convert from base 8 to base 10? I'm probably missing something obvious.  :-[

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2010, 06:03:38 pm »
Here's a hint...

In decimal
135
1 = 1 (hundreds = 10 x 10)
3 = 3 (tens = 10)
5 = 5 (ones)

In octal
135
1 = 1 (sixtyfours = (octal)10 x 10 = (decimal) 8 x 8)
3 = 3 (eights = (octal)10 = (decimal)8)
5 = 5 (ones)
= 1 x 64 + 3 x 8 + 5 x 1 = 93 (decimal)
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline dky.tehkingd.u

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 117
  • Karma: 6
  • im in ngeyä AMP suitz, steppin on ur ayskxawng
Re: Email from Frommer re: Numbers (or: The full number chart!)
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2010, 07:31:22 pm »
Great... numbers etc. W00tz!  :D

Now how would we actually use them in context? Do they count as adjectives or are there other rules applied to them?  ???
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 07:36:27 pm by dky.tehkingd.u »


"Fì'u keye'ung lu!"
"Keye'ung? FÌTSENG. LU. SPA'TAAAAAAA!!!"

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.18 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines | XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, LightStorm Entertainment or The Walt Disney Company.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi