Etymology of the word "Ketuwong"

Started by Mako, May 03, 2017, 03:55:16 PM

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Mako

Kaltxì ma eylan.

Polawm fìtìpawmit Karyu Pawlur nìsok ulte po 'oleyng. Fpìl futa tsawri ngeyä eltur tìtxen si.

Quote from: MakoKaltxì ma Karyu Pawl!

Sìlpey oe tsnì ngaru fpom livu.

Lu tìpawm ayoeru alu oeyä eylan sì oe. Lì'uri alu ketuwong, pesim lu fìlì'ur? Fpìl ayoel futa zama'atsu a "ke awnga", "ke tute awngeyä" fu "ke 'awa tute ayoengeyä" slä ke omum. Ayoeri fì'u eltur tìtxen si. Ke zene 'iveyng nìNa'vi txo ke nivew nga. Tì'eyngìri ngeyä pasyey ayoe.

Quote from: Karyu PawlKaltxì, ma Mako!

Ulte furia ngeyä tìpawmìri fìtì'eyng hawngkrr fìtxan za'u ngane, oeru txoa livu. Srane, pxaya ufpi sulìn oe nìfkrr, slä fìtìkangkem zerawprrte' oene. :-)

Nìrangal lirvu oer tì'eyng asìltsan! Nìkeftxo ke längu oeru.


(Forgive me for switching to English. <g>)

The fact is, I really don't remember where ketuwong comes from. I've searched my records, but the word probably dates back to 2005 or 2006, and I haven't been able to find my notes from that era. Your suggestions, although creative, don't really ring a bell. So for the time being at least, this will have to remain a mystery. Should I discover the source, I'll certainly let you know!

Sorry I don't have a more satisfying response for you.

In any event, thanks for your continued interest and support.

Kìyevame, ma 'eylan.

ta Pawl

For etymology enthusiasts like me, this is kinda disappointing. However it does tell us that this word has existed for a long time, almost 4 years prior to the movie's release itself.

Plumps asked me to share, I hope that this is interesting!

Plumps

Irayo nìtxan, ma Mako.

I just dig every bit of raw Na'vi that we get from K. Pawl 8) ;D
I don't recall ever seeing two topics in a sentence – so this is interesting to have (at least for me).

The etymology is quite interesting, especially if we see kewong as an adjective. By now we would form the noun probably as *kewongtu. And you are right. It's amazing to think that the seeds for the language were planted over 10 years ago  :D

archaic

#2
Maybe the unusual form is significant (in story).




Edit :- I feel some 'fic coming on.
Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

N'wah

I've wondered about this before.  I learned kewong before ketuwong and I always wondered why it was unique.  Thank you very much for spending the time to dig deeper into this  :D

Tìtstewan

Interesting.
I guess, ketuwong could origin from the root *wong + the negative element ke-. The -tu- element is just a personification marker. Maybe, in a very old step of Na'vi, it means something like "familiar, known" (*wong) + not (ke-) + person (-tu-) = not familar/known person aka alien. Not sure why -tu- is between ke- and -wong but probably, once in Na'vi they could have been used as a prefix.

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Tirea Aean

Because of how ancient this word is, it was likely thought of before -tu suffix was solidified. I always thought of it the way Tìtstewan just said, though, officially there is no clear etymology which means that both words are just roots and any derivation or etymology is to be considered coincidence. /shrug

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Blue Elf

Quote from: Plumps on May 03, 2017, 04:45:07 PM
Irayo nìtxan, ma Mako.

I just dig every bit of raw Na'vi that we get from K. Pawl 8) ;D
I don't recall ever seeing two topics in a sentence – so this is interesting to have (at least for me).

Well, I see here even more strange statement:
Srane, pxaya ufpi sulìn oe nìfkrr....-> Yes I am busy for the sake of many things...

AFAIR there is no short plural of 'u - > ayu must be used. And as Na'vi are very exact whenever possible, probably hem is better choice than ayu (Not things are done, but actions). So this reply raises more questions...
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Mako

To be fair, Blue Elf, I was the first person to use that phrase. I sent it to him when communication went dark for several weeks between replies, as a gentle reminder. However, the fact that he replied using very similar phrasing...perhaps legal way to say it confirmed? ;)

Here's the email for context.

Quote from: MakoTslolam, ulte tslam futa pxaya ufpi sulìn nga. Irayo nìli.

Blue Elf

Quote from: Mako on May 04, 2017, 12:22:24 PM
To be fair, Blue Elf, I was the first person to use that phrase. I sent it to him when communication went dark for several weeks between replies, as a gentle reminder. However, the fact that he replied using very similar phrasing...perhaps legal way to say it confirmed? ;)
Not until Paul say it is allowed. IMO it isn't - see Horen leNa'vi (and this source is trustworthy enough), page 14, note at the end of page:

Exception: 'u thing does not take the short plural, always occurring as ayu.

I see it as oversight from Paul's sight, that he didn't corrected this mistake. You can ask for him comment, also some explanation about two topicals in one sentence would be interesting to read.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Blue Elf on May 04, 2017, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: Mako on May 04, 2017, 12:22:24 PM
To be fair, Blue Elf, I was the first person to use that phrase. I sent it to him when communication went dark for several weeks between replies, as a gentle reminder. However, the fact that he replied using very similar phrasing...perhaps legal way to say it confirmed? ;)
Not until Paul say it is allowed. IMO it isn't - see Horen leNa'vi (and this source is trustworthy enough), page 14, note at the end of page:

Exception: 'u thing does not take the short plural, always occurring as ayu.

I see it as oversight from Paul's sight, that he didn't corrected this mistake. You can ask for him comment, also some explanation about two topicals in one sentence would be interesting to read.

There are no other examples of words beginning with /'/ that can't use the short plural? Its kind of a unique circumstance because the /'/ disappears. Perhaps, it is to prevent a one letter word. There are also a lot of circumstances where 'uo will work as a kind of a plural, especially where the quantity of 'u is not definitely known.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tirea Aean

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on May 04, 2017, 07:52:29 PM
[...]Perhaps, it is to prevent a one letter word.

That's what I figured.  The ONLY one letter word in Na'vi that exists or probably ever will exist is the particle "a".  I understand this to be a unique and special kind of word.

QuoteThere are also a lot of circumstances where 'uo will work as a kind of a plural, especially where the quantity of 'u is not definitely known.

Which circumstances call for -o to be an innate plural form?  First I've heard of this.  I understand 'uo (something) to be a singular indefinite thing, as in, "a thing that is what it is, but I'm not certain what thing it is."  Does ayuo not exist then?  I always thought that was the way to say "some things".