Author Topic: Fmawno  (Read 2787 times)

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Offline Lance R. Casey

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Fmawno
« on: August 24, 2010, 06:13:53 am »
So, after some recent correspondence with Karyu Pawl some things have surfaced:

  • When I said something that confused him, he responded with rutxe law sivi.
  • Idiomatic uses of ngari txe'lan mawey livu for "don't worry (about it)", and tokx eo tokx for "face to face, in person".
  • Several instances of tsakrr acting as a general-purpose "then" after txo.
  • Tun observed in the wild, with the meaning "red".
  • I used tìsung in place of "P.S." at the end of a message, and got the same thing nì'eyng, so I guess we can consider both the meaning ("addition") and the use blessed.
  • Another construction which certain people ought to find interesting: tsat ngal new tsat tsun niväk.
  • Vocabulary:
    • naer: ’Uo a tsun fko niväk. Fkol yom syuvet, näk naerit.
    • atxkxerel: used like "map" (stress not indicated).
    • nìtengfya: This intrigued me for a moment. The sentence in question was oel horenit Ìnglìsìyä solar, nìtengfya fko pamrel sivi san [...], following up on a gaffe. This is an adverb, to be contrasted with tengfya, which is a conjunction.
  • And, finally, the answer to a long-standing grammatical question:
    Quote from: oe
    mì hivea trr (<- lì'ul alu mì leykatem lì'ut ahay fìfya krr a tsalì'u ke lu tstxolì'u srak?)
    Quote from: K. Pawl
    Srane, lì'ul alu mì frakrr leykatem lì'ut ahay tsafya—fwa livu tstxolì’u, livu lahea fnelì’u ke tsranten.
    ...with some more asyndeton to ogle at. ;)

// Lance R. Casey

Offline MIPP

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 06:21:05 am »
I was just looking for a word for P.S. HRH

Irayo!
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Offline Payä Tìrol

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 08:47:34 am »
Naer appears to be some sort of drink?

Fra'uri alahe irayo seiyi... tsaw 'uoru lam si. :)
Oeyä atanìl mì sìvawm, mipa tìreyä tìsìlpeyur yat terìng

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 08:56:32 am »
Nìngay txantsana ayfmawn leiu! Irayo!
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 09:07:01 am »
  • atxkxerel: used like "map" (stress not indicated).

It's a compound. I highly, highly suspect atxkxerel, with both of them stressed.

This is all great.

Offline Plumps

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 09:34:31 am »
Indeed, very interesting…

I like the idiomatic expressions.

But mì+ only triggers lenition when pre-positional, right?

tsat ngal new tsat tsun niväk. => you want that that (you) can drink? ???

I don’t quite get your meaning of:
  • Tun observed in the wild, with the meaning "red".
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 10:07:31 am by Plumps »

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 09:41:28 am »
tsat ngal new tsat tsun niväk. => you want that that (you) can drink? ???[/font][/size]

I think it's You want that you can drink that.

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 09:53:55 am »
Okay, help the Na'vi lightweight, rutxe  :-[  So, the verdict is adpositions that cause lenition cause lenition to whatever word comes next, kefyak?
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline Payä Tìrol

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 10:10:27 am »
Yes, I think that was the conclusion when mì hivea trr was deemed correct.
Oeyä atanìl mì sìvawm, mipa tìreyä tìsìlpeyur yat terìng

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 10:20:06 am »
Okay, good, so i'm not a complete skxawng.  This is all exciting stuff =)
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 11:37:17 am »
Somehow "tìsung" gives me more of an "additionally..." vibe to it than a "p.s." vibe, even though it isn't "nìsung".
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 12:04:45 pm »
Somehow "tìsung" gives me more of an "additionally..." vibe to it than a "p.s." vibe, even though it isn't "nìsung".

Same. Although PS sort of just meant that...

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 12:16:36 pm »
  • And, finally, the answer to a long-standing grammatical question:
    Quote from: oe
    mì hivea trr (<- lì'ul alu mì leykatem lì'ut ahay fìfya krr a tsalì'u ke lu tstxolì'u srak?)
    Quote from: K. Pawl
    Srane, lì'ul alu mì frakrr leykatem lì'ut ahay tsafya—fwa livu tstxolì’u, livu lahea fnelì’u ke tsranten.
    ...with some more asyndeton to ogle at. ;)

Irayo nìngay! Lam oer fwa fì'u tsranten frato :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 12:29:00 pm »
Naer appears to be some sort of drink?

Just "drink" as a general concept, parallel to "food".

But mì+ only triggers lenition when pre-positional, right?

Yes:

Quote from: Language Log
Certain adpositions, when in pre-nominal position, trigger lenition.

I don’t quite get your meaning of:
  • Tun observed in the wild, with the meaning "red".

There was a bunch of color words which were known, but "put on hold" pending review of the underlying system. I assume tun has now joined the ranks of vetted ones, since Frommer used it freely.

tsat ngal new tsat tsun niväk. => you want that that (you) can drink? ???

I think it's You want that you can drink that.

Yeah, it was a fancy way of saying, "drink what you want". :)

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Prrton

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 01:02:34 pm »
I don’t quite get your meaning of:
  • Tun observed in the wild, with the meaning "red".

There was a bunch of color words which were known, but "put on hold" pending review of the underlying system. I assume tun has now joined the ranks of vetted ones, since Frommer used it freely.


Rutxe maweypivey nìyol, ma oeyä ayeylan. Clarification on the colors should be coming very very soon. I will not be surprised at all if Na'vi «tun» falls in our spectrum of "red". Clearly, based on this, it will.

This is all fascinating and this means (to me) that pre-"noun cluster" adpositions can behave very much like English prepositions. I do think this makes Na'vi a bit more "grammatically approachable", especially for Indo-European speakers.

The next question then becomes what is an adposition's POST noun relationship to a "noun cluster" or "complex noun". Must it be:

  «vrrtep a rel arusikx lolam»

      or does Na'vi tolerate

  «vrrtep a rel arusikx lolam»

       as well?

If you don't like the sawtute influenced example:

  «ikran a ramftu alusìng holum»

      vs.

  «ikran a ram alusìngftu holum»

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 01:16:35 pm »
Fpìl oel futa zene livu ramftu alusìngrel arusikx. Ngian oe mllte furia zene fko pivawm Pawlur fìtxeleteri nìngay. Sìltsana tìpawm :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Prrton

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2010, 02:49:10 pm »
Fpìl oel futa zene livu ramftu alusìngrel arusikx. Ngian oe mllte furia zene fko pivawm Pawlur fìtxeleteri nìngay. Sìltsana tìpawm :)

Nìlaw fìfya tsun nivong ayhorenìlä lelì'fya nìlor nìpxi slä txo fìtìkenong alu « Mì sawnatepa tsray larmu tìtxuro astxong. » lu eyawr, kop tsun livu hek a sìtsun alahe nìpxay, tì'efumì oeyä.

Fìtìkenongìri oel kop fpìl futa swey lu na fwa slivu « Tawnatepa tsraymì larmu tìtxuro astxong. »


Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 03:16:04 pm »
Tse.. Fìmesìkenong lam oer sìltsan eyawrsì nìwotx. Fu oe ke tslolam.. ftxey nga plltxe lahea sìkenongteri a hek fuke?
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Prrton

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 04:11:28 pm »
Tse.. Fìmesìkenong lam oer sìltsan eyawrsì nìwotx. Fu oe ke tslolam.. ftxey nga plltxe lahea sìkenongteri a hek fuke?

Nìfay’o a plltxe txe’lanta, oeri, fìtìkenong alu « Mì sawnatepa tsray... » (wä safya’o alu «tawnatepa tsraymì... ») kop hek nì’it. Slä tsun tslivam luke tìngäzìk ulte fpìl futa tsun fìfya pivlltxe fko (nìwin txivula eyawra aylì'fyavit apawnlltxe ìlä ayhoren lelì’fya mì ronsem fkeyä) nìftue nì’ul.

Lahea tsaysìkenong a sa’uteri oe poltxe lu letsunslua tsayrenu a kxawm tsatsun ’ivong txo tivung fkol futa aylì’ul na mì, ro, ìlä, sre, sì wä ke ’ampi kxetseti tstxolì’uä seyä nìtokx nìyey. Slä, skxakep teri fwa zene livok asim na « kelkumì » luke hì’ia tsenge apiak kaw’it a tsakorenur lepamrel lu tìkan a fmi wivìntxu futa renu alu *«ayram alusìngro» ke tsun tivam, kefyak?

Zene fko pivawm Karyur.  ;)

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Fmawno
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2010, 02:39:55 am »
Somehow "tìsung" gives me more of an "additionally..." vibe to it than a "p.s." vibe, even though it isn't "nìsung".

Same. Although PS sort of just meant that...
I'd been using m.'u. for maw 'upxare, though I suppose that is a bit of a calque.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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