Author Topic: for (duration), Jesus loan-word & «fmal»  (Read 4201 times)

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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2010, 07:09:54 am »
That's assuming time (krr) is even countable, which I don't think it is...  Not all nouns are countable.  We can have the plural of time in English (times), but what we usually mean when we say that would better be translated to Na'vi as alo, not krr.
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Offline Ataeghane

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2010, 12:29:14 pm »
Countableness is not fixed. It's obviously diffrent in diffrent languages, and I think it's quite often a little idiomatic. For instance, in Polish 'time' is 'czas' and it's meaning is similar to English one. But plural ('czasy') means rather 'nowadays', than 'times'. (For 'alo' we use the word 'raz')

Oer wivìntxu ngal oey keyeyt krr a tse'a sat. Frakrr.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2010, 05:00:56 pm »
That's assuming time (krr) is even countable, which I don't think it is...  Not all nouns are countable.  We can have the plural of time in English (times), but what we usually mean when we say that would better be translated to Na'vi as alo, not krr.

Indeed the question does. In many ways I hope that is uncountable, we don't seem to have many/enough of them yet.
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Offline wm.annis

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2010, 01:51:57 pm »
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Plumps

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2010, 06:42:24 pm »
Addition:

The great opportunity to provide the Christmas songs for download (thanks again, ma Markì) from which all this comes and a short exchange with William reminded me that I asked Frommer about the usage of fmal, since it’s a bit difficult to translate if you don’t know the exact meaning. His reply:


Quote from: Frommer, Dec 1
By the way, the place I had used fmal was in a line of dialog for one of the video games:

Luke pay, ke tsun ayoe tìreyti fmival.
‘Without water we cannot sustain life.’
I trust William’s observation that this would also be the first Frommarian example of luke, I’m not sure about fmal, though.

Offline Prrton

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2010, 08:40:08 pm »
Non-adjacent subordinator? Wow.

Yeah, that gave my brain a Pindaric lurch.

I didn't lurch at all at this. I don't see what I'm missing. Why is it non-adjacent??

I haz confuze...  ???

I read through the whole thread and I can't figure out the lurch.


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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2010, 08:45:50 pm »
I haz confuze...  ???

I read through the whole thread and I can't figure out the lurch.

  Maria kxamlä na'rìnga zìsìto akinä ke lalmu tsar kea rìk
  Mary goes through the forest which for seven years has had no leaf.

The noun is separated from it's attributive phrase by the verb.  In other circumstances (say, an adverb and attributive adjective), such an intrusion is forbidden.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Prrton

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2010, 08:54:45 pm »
I haz confuze...  ???

I read through the whole thread and I can't figure out the lurch.

  Maria kxamlä na'rìnga zìsìto akinä ke lalmu tsar kea rìk
  Mary goes through the forest which for seven years has had no leaf.

The noun is separated from it's attributive phrase by the verb.  In other circumstances (say, an adverb and attributive adjective), such an intrusion is forbidden.

Oh. Now I get it. I was translating it differently (or actually NOT translating it at all) in my head.

But in my way, technically, I think tsar would have to be sar (the 7 years). It's funky one way or the other.

Thanks for the clarification.  ;D


Offline Prrton

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2010, 08:59:24 pm »
I haz confuze...  ???

I read through the whole thread and I can't figure out the lurch.

  Maria kxamlä na'rìnga zìsìto akinä ke lalmu tsar kea rìk
  Mary goes through the forest which for seven years has had no leaf.

The noun is separated from it's attributive phrase by the verb.  In other circumstances (say, an adverb and attributive adjective), such an intrusion is forbidden.

Oh. Now I get it. I was translating it differently (or actually NOT translating it at all) in my head.

But in my way, technically, I think tsar would have to be sar (the 7 years). It's funky one way or the other.

Thanks for the clarification.  ;D



Or?... does the «zìsìto akinä» function as one period and therefore «tsar»?...


Offline wm.annis

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2010, 09:00:26 pm »
Or?... does the «zìsìto akinä» function as one period and therefore «tsar»?...

I take na'rìng as the antecedent of tsar here.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

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Re: for (duration) & Jesus loan-word
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 09:03:47 pm »
Or?... does the «zìsìto akinä» function as one period and therefore «tsar»?...

I take na'rìng as the antecedent of tsar here.

Yes, that makes total sense, but then there’s the non-adjacent *lurch*.

Anyway, I get the original conundrum.

It is odd.

Ahh, poetry!!  ;)


Offline Carborundum

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Re: for (duration), Jesus loan-word & «fmal»
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2010, 03:07:26 pm »
I was looking through Pandorapedia tonight, awaiting the new year. A line from the Hunt Song caught my attention:

Awpot set ftxey ayngal a l(u) ayngakip
Choose one among you

So apparently "Maria goes through the forest..." was not our first example of non-adjacent subordination.
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Re: for (duration), Jesus loan-word & «fmal»
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2013, 01:33:56 pm »
Kameyul a Kepekftu ngati kameie

Fairly simple but it came up in the other news thread that wm.annis posted earlier today and I had received the answer to how we can express duration (for a while, for an hour, for five years etc.) just this morning.

Karyu Pawl kindly took a look over a translation project in which the line »Maria goes through the forest that had no leafs for seven years« appears.

Quote from: Frommer, 1 Dec ’10, 9:56
First of all, the way you express duration is to add -o to the time word:

zìsìto amrr = 'for five years'

ayzìsìto = 'for years'

[…] The structure you want is equivalent to the following (which is of course bad English just as it's bad German, but perfectly correct in many languages):

the forest that there was no leaf to it (i.e., that had no leaf)

So the line would be:

Maria kxamlä na'rìng kä a zìsìto akinä ke lalmu tsar kea rìk

(tsar = to it)

Seysonìltsan! I'll know know how to express a duration. Oe 'ayefu nitram oeyä tìreyo.

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« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 01:41:13 pm by Kameyu a Kepekmì »
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