Idiomatic Expressions

[omängum fra'uti]

Seriously, the fact that zenke isn't written "zengke" might be one of Frommer's few conceptual flubs, IMO. That, and "frrfen" (frrfen + <er>). OI!!

As for everything else, we have clear examples of [n] assimilating with [p] and [k] in the middle of words (c.w. words), I feel to create a purer sound. Anything alveolar is rather strong, to be sure. If one tries to anunciate [p] or [k] after [n], one finds that both "get caught." You have to soften it up. As for "tìng mikyun" and "tìng nari," these examples of sound change only pertain to nasals. As I render it myself, I can tell that [N] must, too, be softened to make room for [n] and [m]. Going from [N] to [m] is easier than [N] to [n], of course. But, I suppose to be fair, it's easier to make the rule universal. (Sorry for my rudimentary analysis; I'm not too privy to linguistic terminology.)

With the zenke vs zengke thing, he admitted he's been inconsistent in the spelling there.  The frrfen thing is a given rule though.

My thinking was that even when you say /ngp/, it still has a hint of an m in there, but rethinking it, it's nowhere near as pronounced as doing /np/ so perhaps I did take it a bit too far.  Yet one more thing to get clarified.

[Swoka Swizaw]

Here's one: (Krr a lu kawng,) ngeyä tstal kawkrr ke tete livu. Too long and literal?

The difference in frrfen>frrfen vs. plltxe>poltxe is one of my favorite things about Na'vi.

I suppose it's cool. I'm just too literal and formulaic.

[omängum fra'uti]

It's quite formulaic though.  If it's a stressed syllable that an infix is merging with, the infix gets dropped.

So FRRfen + er = FRRfen while pllTXE + ol = polTXE.

Hypothetically if the stress of frrfen were on the second syllable it would be frrFEN + er = ferFEN.  Quite predictable.

[Prrton]

...(damn, we need a word for "important" )...

In many contexts (most actually) «tsranten» works for "important". It's technically defined at "to matter/to be of import."

   Rutxe, oeru wivìntxu tsat a tsranten nì'aw.

   Please, show me only what's important.

   Yola krr, txana krr, ke tsranten.

   It doesn't matter how long it takes. (It's not important how long it takes.)

[Plumps]

Rather by accident I used something in this thread that could be an idiomatic expression for »forgetting«

ke lu oeru tsaheylu hu Eywa

or as alternatives:
ke lu oeru tsaheylu hu utral aymokriyä
lu oeru kea tsaheylu hu ...
oe ke lu mì saheylu ...

»I don't have a connection with Eywa/the Tree of Voices«
meaning: I have no connection with the voices of our ancestors so what I was going to do or say is lost (at the moment) => ergo: I forgot / it is lost to me (for the moment) / I'm missing something right now

What do you think?

[Ftiafpi]

What do you think?[/font][/size]

Ermmmm, well, this is my personal opinion so don't take it as anything other than that but I don't like it. To me it sounds too negative and doesn't really convey the meaning to me that some knowledge/memory was misplaced. Also, it seems too definite, like "I will never know that" or "I have never known that".

To me a better phrase would be something along the lines of:

"That [thing/memory/knowledge/idea/etc.] is known only by Eywa"
or perhaps;
"My mind has lost that [thing/memory/knowledge/idea/etc.]"
or maybe this is simply a phrase that is best left non-idiomatic;
"I don't know" or "I forgot that" or "I don't remember that" or whatever. Perhaps more poetic forms of those could be made ("My mind will have to hunt for that some more").

[omängum fra'uti]

You mean like a simple "Tsa'ok ke lu oer"?

Something like "That X is known only by Eywa" sounds awful close to a direct translation of "God only knows".

[Ftiafpi]

You mean like a simple "Tsa'ok ke lu oer"?

Something like "That X is known only by Eywa" sounds awful close to a direct translation of "God only knows".

Yeah, I was worried about it getting too close to that idiom and I think I agree, it does get too close.

[Plumps]

Ermmmm, well, this is my personal opinion so don't take it as anything other than that but I don't like it. To me it sounds too negative and doesn't really convey the meaning to me that some knowledge/memory was misplaced. Also, it seems too definite, like "I will never know that" or "I have never known that".

Fair enough
It's okay – I asked for your opinions and I take tìplltxe tìngayä anytime So, thanks for your input. After all, it was just a suggestion. Your points are valid. You're right, after looking at it again, it does seem more apropriate for somebody who has lost his connection with Eywa completly (still the worst punishment I can imagine for a Na'vi...) – maybe then, a hopeless situation, resignation?

Irayo

['eylan na'viyä]

I think the basic idea is good but i see it the same way as Ftiafpi.
How about a modified version for a similar meaning?
thats what i came to mind:
if you want to say that youre not omniscient:
"i dont know everything that Eywa knows/ is connected with"
but for "know everything" i would use some kind of intensificated meaning of "do tsaheylu

any ideas, opinions or different concepts?

[tsrräfkxätu]

Tewti! What gem of a thread to stumble upon!

Taronyu's ikran thing is pretty good with the bonding for life allusion and all, but I find it a bit too cheesy for my palate (and the other one with  the stars even more so.) The Na'vi didn't strike me as a culture appreciative of fermented gland secretions. I also thought that annis' mikyun nìteng plltxe was perfect!

But I was kind of surprised people didn't jump on Ayfalulukanä's idea. That gesture is very typical of felids, and I believe also shown in the movie. So here's another suggestion based on that.

Ngeyä kxetse a ke tsurokx. – Your tail is restless.

I'd imagine this would mean something like "What's troubling/bothering you?" or used in a broader sense could also mean "What's on your mind?/Penny for your thoughts." It alliterates nicely.

[Kì'eyawn]

Ngeyä kxetse a ke tsurokx. – Your tail is restless.

I'd imagine this would mean something like "What's troubling/bothering you?" or used in a broader sense could also mean "What's on your mind?/Penny for your thoughts." It alliterates nicely.

Fì'u oeru prrte' lu nìtxan.

[omängum fra'uti]

Not really idiomatoc as it does literally mean what it says, but to say "I was not here" I came up with "oel tsengot alahe tamok" which has a nice sound to it and would be interesting as a common phrase for that sort of thing.  And it works for "I was not there" too.

Edit: It occurs to me that there are a couple consonants there that could be combined by swapping two words...  "Oel lahea tsengot tamok"

[Swoka Swizaw]

I don't know if this really counts, but I thought of a way for us to either refer to each other, OR (more preferred, to be honest) a way for us to refer to outsiders NOT yet introduced to Na'vi (or Avatar). In the film, humans are "tawtute," yes? On world, this makes sense. Here, though, refering to a conceptual outsider as such, seems too trendy. BUT, I know that we want remain true to the core of Avatar.

Fpìl oel futa lu ngay fwa txo ivomum tuteo teri Na'viti, slayu pol Na'viä hapxìti...
It is true, I think, that whoever knows of the People becomes a part of the People...

...that mean US - so we are all Na'vi, at heart. And to refer to another that is not "in the know," we would call them: Na'vi letawtu. This way, we recognize everyone as a part of the People, but know where they come from before their insanity has been cured.

(More or less, I am suggesting we turn Tawtute into an adjective. After we add "le-," as to not have a lengthy adjective, letawtute, we remove the "-te" at the end: Letawtu. The tu at the end is perfect to stand alone.)

[omängum fra'uti]

Back on the topic of expressions to suggest, I came up with Na'vi for "I know you are but what am I"...

Na'vi 'eveng a'awve: Nga lu leskxawng!
Na'vi 'eveng amuve: Nga to oe!
Na'vi 'eveng a'awve: Kanu srak?  Oel omeium.
Na'vi 'eveng amuve: Oe pìryeng sa'nur!
Na'vi 'eveng a'awve: Srak oe to nga lu kanu?  Pol omum nìteng.
Na'vi 'eveng amuve: (zerawng) MA SA'NU|

[kewnya txamew'itan]

I like it, the example is brilliant. Harmahawng.

[omängum fra'uti]

Moved the discusion on Frommer's words to the Intermediate/Sentences forum, as it is a bit off topic here.

http://forum.learnnavi.org/language-updates/re-idiomatic-expressions/

[omängum fra'uti]

Here's another one...  For a Na'vi version of "I'll sleep on it" - a few possibilities.

1. Äie zola'u unilmì
2. Unil (oeyä) ftxatsey

But perhaps still too close to a literal translation (of the literal meaning that is)

[Ftiafpi]

Here's another one...  For a Na'vi version of "I'll sleep on it" - a few possibilities.

1. Äie zola'u unilmì
2. Unil (oeyä) ftxatsey

But perhaps still too close to a literal translation (of the literal meaning that is)

How about:

"Oe oìymum nì'ul maw oe hahaw."

or

"Oeyä unilìl kìyar oeti nì'ul."

[omängum fra'uti]

well, by too literal, I mean perhaps get away from the sleep analogy completely.