Idiomatic Expressions

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

I think the most simple answer would be "Oel fpayìl terifì'ut."

OT: Is teri- our only preposition? I thought there were more but it's the only one listed as a prep. on the wiki.

[Ftiafpi]

well, by too literal, I mean perhaps get away from the sleep analogy completely.

ahhhh

[omängum fra'uti]

I think the most simple answer would be "Oel fpayìl terifì'ut."

OT: Is teri- our only preposition? I thought there were more but it's the only one listed as a prep. on the wiki.

You're right, lets have everyone stop saying "Let me sleep on it" and they can just say "I'll think about it" instead.  (Sorry, sarcasm, perhaps something I overuse.)

The point of idioms is that they add flavor to the language, not that there isn't another way to say it.  (And teri is one of many adpositions, but when used as a preposition like that it isn't a prefix, plus the noun wouldn't get a case ending.  So it would be "Oe fpayìl fì'uteri/teri fì'u")

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

Irayo for the corrections.

I know idioms add to a language but I don't think translating English idioms to Na'vi is the right way to go about. The only way for us to get a real Na'vi idiot is for Cameron or Karyu Paul to give it to us. While the meanings of our idioms may seem like they would be obvious, most of the time is basically gibberish to everyone else.

ex.
The space below a nose is long

Unable to stop being the owl

When we do get canon Na'vi idioms, chances are they are going to seem very outlandish. I believe Paul said himself that he doesn't want Na'vi to be a copy of English.

[omängum fra'uti]

Please read the first post of this thread.  The point here is to gather ideas and suggest them to Frommer at some point, not to just make stuff up and call it canon.  Yes I agree that just translating English idioms isn't the way to go, which is why I was trying to give a starting point and an idea of moving away from it.

The thing is, idioms are idioms for a reason.  Because they are common phrases.  So often times, while they may be completely different, different languages can have similar idioms.  Sometimes they aren't even that different at all.  (e.g. "I am called X" is a common idiom.)  So while the literal meaning of idioms shouldn't be translated, the concept or idea that it expresses certainly could.  For example the way I translated "I know you are but what am I?" into "Nga to oe".  The Na'vi actually says nothing like what I gave as the translation.  Rather it's a very short and concise phrase using Na'vi grammar that would be used in a similar situation.

The idiom I was targetting there is something along the lines of "I'll sleep on it" or "Let me get back to you on that" (Or yes, the straight forward "I'll think about it").  I already said I thought what I proposed was too literal, and best to get away from the sleep analogy completely.

Edit: It's also worth noting that several of the suggestions here are quite good, not based (That I know of) on any existing language, and even nicely tied into the Na'vi culture.

[tsrräfkxätu]

OK, this one isn't particularly brilliant, but I should have gone to bed 5 hours ago, and will have to "wake up" in three.

Tivul vay tsautral!

This is a generic encouragement used when one faces a difficult situation. It's meaning ranges from a comforting "Don't give up!" through a harsh "Pull yourself together!" to an appreciative "That's the spirit!" depending on the context in which it's used. The second part a ta zolup nga is never used, but everyone knows it's there (like the last straw in English.)

[omängum fra'uti]

Oh yeah, another one I thought of awhile ago, which is something a bit nonsensical or pointless on its own, but I think would fit the role nicely...

Ma nga!
Hey you!

[Prrton]

Oh yeah, another one I thought of awhile ago, which is something a bit nonsensical or pointless on its own, but I think would fit the role nicely...

Ma nga!
Hey you!

Sìlronsem nìtxan nang!

[tsrräfkxätu]

Kllkxolem kxetsesìn fkeyä. — Someone stepped on their own tail.

Meaning: Someone is having a bad day. Someone is being super grumpy/snappy.

Etymology: Not only does it hurt, but if it happens while moving then it can cause the victim to trip. Not terribly warrior-like.

Variants: Kllkxäpolem. — Shorter version. To be uttered under one's breath.
Kllkxolem rä'ä kxetsesìn oeyä! — Final warning: you're really pissing me off!



[Lam futa] tsatsun täpivoltem mì puntil [tskohu fkeyä]. — [One looks like] they could shoot themselves in the elbow [with their own bow].

Meaning: Someone is dangerously clumsy or incompetent, or is simply deemed an utter skxawng.

Etymology: The elbow of the drawing hand is the part of the body which is the furthest away from the wrong end of the arrow during archery. To succeed in hitting it one needs to hold the bow the wrong way – toward themselves.

Variant: Mì puntil, pak! — Haha, you suck! Expression of Schadenfreude at another person's failure.

[omängum fra'uti]

I'm not sure I'm big on the arrow/elbow one, but I need a Na'vi word for brilliant to describe the tail one!  Though describing someone, I'd probably say "Pori kllkxolem kxetsesìn" or to someone who was seeming grumpy "Srak ngari kllkxolem kxetsesìn (fìtrr)?"  But perhaps that could be colloquially shortened to "Srak kllkxolem kxetsesìn?"

[Ftiafpi]

I like the tail one as well.

[tsrräfkxätu]

I'm not sure I'm big on the arrow/elbow one

That's because you probably never played MERP using those insane critical failure tables. They would actually let you pull off stunts like that. Hahaha!

"Pori kllkxolem kxetsesìn"

I like this pori thing, and it made me realize that a more elegant way of putting my original sentence would be: Poru kllkxäpolem kxetsesìn. Sounds really nìNa'vi to me.

But my favorite remains kllkxäpolem; it's short, it's sweet, and I find the notion of someone stepping on themselves hilariously absurd.

or to someone who was seeming grumpy "Srak ngari kllkxolem kxetsesìn (fìtrr)?"  But perhaps that could be colloquially shortened to "Srak kllkxolem kxetsesìn?"

I like this question format a LOT! Takes away the edge a bit, so you can use the expression without being too offensive.


I also thought your Ma nga! was very clever, just like Txur'Itan's similar Ngari ko? (which I think belongs in this list.)

[Ftiafpi]

I'm not sure I'm big on the arrow/elbow one

That's because you probably never played MERP using those insane critical failure tables. They would actually let you pull off stunts like that. Hahaha!

Ahahaha!

Spoiler

"You critically fail and hit your friend for 12 damage."
"But my friends 20 feet away."
"Well, then your sword flies out of your hand and strikes him on the arm."
"But I'm wearing locked gauntlets-"
"SHUTUP! The DM has spoken!"

Anyway, I kind of like the elbow one as well, but it is kind of a stretch, I don't see that being something that would become common usage. But, then again, I'm not a local speaker .

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Kllkxolem kxetsesìn fkeyä. — Someone stepped on their own tail.

Meaning: Someone is having a bad day. Someone is being super grumpy/snappy.

Etymology: Not only does it hurt, but if it happens while moving then it can cause the victim to trip. Not terribly warrior-like.

Variants: Kllkxäpolem. — Shorter version. To be uttered under one's breath.
Kllkxolem rä'ä kxetsesìn oeyä! — Final warning: you're really pissing me off!



[Lam futa] tsatsun täpivoltem mì puntil [tskohu fkeyä]. — [One looks like] they could shoot themselves in the elbow [with their own bow].

Meaning: Someone is dangerously clumsy or incompetent, or is simply deemed an utter skxawng.

Etymology: The elbow of the drawing hand is the part of the body which is the furthest away from the wrong end of the arrow during archery. To succeed in hitting it one needs to hold the bow the wrong way – toward themselves.

Variant: Mì puntil, pak! — Haha, you suck! Expression of Schadenfreude at another person's failure.

I love the first one.

As for the second, the lam futa is wrong on two levels. One lam is intransitive so it would be fwa and two, this is what <ats> is for. 

[tsrräfkxätu]

One lam is intransitive

How do we know that?

[kewnya txamew'itan]

That's a good point actually. I'd just assumed it was intransitive. 

I guess it would follow the default rules and be ambitransitive and in this context, transitive.

Irayo for pointing that out to me.

It's academic (not that that's a bad thing) anyway as it's still an unnecessary (and probably odd-sounding) clause that could, and should be replaced by <ats>.

[eanayo]

It's academic (not that that's a bad thing) anyway as it's still an unnecessary (and probably odd-sounding) clause that could, and should be replaced by <ats>.

So... täpivolatsem?
Congratulations, you just beat okrìsti's infix record.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Not quite, he has <äp><iyev><ei> and the <iyev> is sort of two. I'd say he still wins/ 

[omängum fra'uti]

It would actually be täpilvatsem.

Anyway, in Russia there is a saying that translates roughly as "Words are not sparrows, once they fly off you can not catch them."  Now literally in Na'vi this would probably be something like "Lì'uri ke lu yayona, tswolayon a krr, ke tsun nga stivä'nì."  But that's a literal translation, and I figure the Na'vi would say that soemething more like...

Aylì'ut ftxey tengfya ayswizawti kan, 'awlie mesawit fkol toltem, ke tsun tsakem slivu fwa ke si.

A bit long and unwieldy, and not ideally how I'd like to translate it.  Also, it's more of an analogy than an idiom.  BUT...  Colloquailly (And this works even if the translation is cleaned up) I'd imagine it would be referenced in a short idiom.

Aylì'ut (ngeyä) kivan

['eylan na'viyä]

I'm not sure I'm big on the arrow/elbow one

That's because you probably never played MERP using those insane critical failure tables. They would actually let you pull off stunts like that. Hahaha!

Ahahaha!

Spoiler

"You critically fail and hit your friend for 12 damage."
"But my friends 20 feet away."
"Well, then your sword flies out of your hand and strikes him on the arm."
"But I'm wearing locked gauntlets-"
"SHUTUP! The DM has spoken!"

Anyway, I kind of like the elbow one as well, but it is kind of a stretch, I don't see that being something that would become common usage. But, then again, I'm not a local speaker .

Spoiler

I had to think about a situation in an RPG too. People climbed on a tree to flee from the enemy. One person threw spears and diced a critical fail. I, as master, chose to guide the spear into his foot. That being not unpractical enough he diced a 20 again in the next turn. So even before pulling out the first one he had another one in the second foot. I would have liked seeing that in real 

so i try a variation:

Alt1: nga keng tivoltem ngeyä mevenut
Alt2: nga keng venut täpivoltem