Author Topic: Why is this night...  (Read 4324 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2010, 02:02:33 pm »
Did you notice that the apostrophe is not there in the explanations? Is this an error in the transcription?
I did notice...  But we have no example of a glottal stop being added with nì...  Then again we also have no examples of nì on a word starting with e...  For now I'm assuming it is a transcription thing, but that's something else to add to our list of questions.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Kä'eng

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: 12
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2010, 02:34:15 pm »
Then again we also have no examples of nì on a word starting with e...
Sure we do: from the Weaving Song, Katot täftxu oel, nìean nìrim.
Ma evi, ke'u ke lu prrte' to fwa sim tuteot ayawne.
Slä txo tuteo fmi 'ivampi ngat ro seng, fu nìfya'o, a 'eykefu ngati vä', tsakem ke lu sìltsan.
Tsaw lu ngeyä tokx! Kawtu ke tsun nìmuiä 'ivampi ngat txo ngal ke new tsakemit.
Ha kempe si nga? Nì'awve, nga plltxe san kehe. Tsakrr, ngal tsatsengti hum!

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2010, 02:40:21 pm »
Blast you weaving song! *shakes fist* I never think to check that one and it's not posted online for copyright reasons.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Na'rìghawnu

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
  • Karma: 22
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2010, 03:07:42 pm »

Quote
it's not posted online for copyright reasons.

Since it's one of our major sources it's maybe completely given in the Wiki Vocabulary in little snippets. Using the browser's search function (nìe...) delivers of course "nìean" too.

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2010, 03:08:59 pm »
I made the mistake of relying on the formal vocabulary list rather than derived words used in various sources.  I keep forgetting not all derivations are formally defined.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2010, 03:38:08 pm »
Ok I think that is the quickest response I've gotten to a question by far.  I had the stress on yemfpay wrong (See, told you it was the one I was not sure about), but Frommer confirmed the rest were correct.  The list of eoio was indeed a mistake and it should have been 'eoio.  Yemfpay si is the verb for dipping, yemfpay is a noun for dipping or immersion.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline wm.annis

  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3076
  • Karma: 143
  • Translate the meaning, not the words!
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2010, 04:30:31 pm »
One of the most striking grammatical features of this new bit of Frommerian corpus is a compound adverbial phrase: nìfya'o letrrtrr Glossed "in-manner ordinary."  The adverbial prefix encompasses not just fya'o, but the phrase fya'o letrrtrr.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Plumps

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6199
  • Karma: 223
  • ’Ivong Na’vi
    • Aylì'uä Ramunong (Pìlok)
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2010, 04:32:20 pm »
So, it's yemfpay ? Could you change that in your original post to avoid confusion? Irayo :) and thanks for sharing

Offline roger

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
  • Karma: 22
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2010, 08:04:45 pm »
One of the most striking grammatical features of this new bit of Frommerian corpus is a compound adverbial phrase: nìfya'o letrrtrr Glossed "in-manner ordinary."  The adverbial prefix encompasses not just fya'o, but the phrase fya'o letrrtrr.

Yes, I thought that was worth a note too.

Offline wm.annis

  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3076
  • Karma: 143
  • Translate the meaning, not the words!
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2010, 09:07:00 pm »
Yes, I thought that was worth a note too.

And he comments:

Quote from: Karyu Pawl
Quick comment re "nìfya'o letrrtrr":

I gather this has caused some consternation. If so, that's not surprising, since on the surface it looks as if an adjective as modifying an adverb. As you've realized, the bracketing is really nì-[fya'o letrrtrr], so it's not as weird as it seems--provided, as you say, you accept that an affix can be applied to a phrase. (I was trying without success to think of places that English does that, along the lines of "He answered very in-your-facely" or "That was an out-of-the-boxish solution.")

But it's a useful construction, since it's completely productive: if you can modify fya'o with an adjective, you can turn that phrase into a manner adverbial with nìfya'o. True, there is overlap between one-word adverbs and these constructions, but that's not unusual: in English we can say "She spoke clearly" or "She spoke in a clear way." (For the first sentence, though, nìlaw is ambiguous just as "clearly" is in English: Poe poltxe nìlaw means either "She spoke clearly" or "Clearly, she spoke." However, Poe poltxe nìfya'o alaw can only mean "She spoke clearly.")

With the limited lexicon we currently have, it's natural for people to try to use the derivational affixes freely to fill gaps. But in fact they aren't freely productive, which is why forms with tì-, sä-, le-, and nì- need to be listed in the lexicon. It's not a given that any particular root can take these affixes, and even when the form exists, the meaning won't necessarily be predictable. (E.g. tìrol means 'song' rather than 'singing.' And in English, "ordinarily" does not mean "in an ordinary manner.") But you don't have that problem with a nìfya'o adverbial--the process is always productive and always interpreted as a manner adverbial.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Kì'eyawn

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1779
  • Karma: 32
  • Oeru syaw "tigermind" kop.
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2010, 10:11:21 pm »
Tewti, Karyu Pawl's comment just exploded my brain a little.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2010, 10:33:38 pm »
So if the prefix applies to the phrase.... *mad scientist laugh*

Oel ngati tse'a nìfya'o a tsere'a nantangìl yerikit.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline NeotrekkerZ

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 688
  • Karma: 40
  • Nume ralit lì'fyayä ulte nga tayìran Eywahu.
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2010, 10:45:25 pm »
Or you could translate the lyrics to "I need you" by America:  Oel kin ngati nìfya'o a syulangìl kin tompat.
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline roger

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
  • Karma: 22
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2010, 11:44:50 pm »
So if the prefix applies to the phrase....

Yes, it's actually a clitic, not an affix, like 's in English.

Offline Taronyu

  • Meals on wheels
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2718
  • Karma: 154
  • Lacho Calad! Drego Morn!
    • Burnt Fen
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2010, 03:32:02 pm »
Taronyu isn't here yet...don't I feel ahead of the game. :P

Heh. I'm not as on top of the ball as you think I am.

Swoka Swizaw

  • Guest
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2010, 03:58:27 pm »
Taronyu isn't here yet...don't I feel ahead of the game. :P

Heh. I'm not as on top of the ball as you think I am.

You've kept up an almost daily updated dictionary of a faux language, and you think you're not on the ball? You're more on the ball than you think I ought not to think... ;)

Offline Rain

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1022
  • Karma: 58
Re: Why is this night...
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2010, 07:53:16 am »
I just get this warm, fuzzy, happy feeling every time I stumble across stuff like this that adds to and helps my own vocabulary.
"If there are self-made purgatories, then we shall all have to live in them."
-Spock, "This Side of Paradise"

"The greatest danger about Pandora is that you may come to love it too much." ~Grace Augustine

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines | XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, LightStorm Entertainment or The Walt Disney Company.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi