Author Topic: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter  (Read 17093 times)

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Offline Eight

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2010, 03:04:27 pm »
Added all words to dictionary. Will upload in around a minute.
Aaaaarrrgggghhhh... ;)

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2010, 03:06:10 pm »
Ayeylanur oe eylanur lì'fya leNa'vi nìwotx

Every single noun there has a case ending, in addition to sì being there.  That wouldn't work if you tried doing the same with an adposition like mì (Ignoring the nonsensicalness of the resulting sentence if it did work).

Why doesn't it work? I guess I'm not following. Couldn't sì be acting as an adposition in front of eylan?  

-Keyl

Eylan already has the dative case though.  To the best of my knowledge, it is as nonsensical to combine a noun case and adposition as it is to combine two noun cases.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline Keylstxatsmen

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2010, 03:07:10 pm »
Wow this is great!! Txana irayo!
I have one question though.

Shouldn't yawn be a verb? In his letter he used tìyawnit, tì-yawn-it. We know since previously that tì- makes a verb into a noun. So yawn should be a verb then? Yawn = To love. Tíyawn = A love.

tìyawn would = "love" an abstract noun, no article needed in English.

-Keyl
Oeru lì'fya leNa'vi prrte’ leiu nìtxan! 

Txo nga new leskxawnga tawtutehu nìNa'vi pivängkxo, oeru 'upxaret fpe' ulte ngaru srungit tayìng oel.  Faylì'ut alor nume 'awsiteng ko!

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2010, 03:10:20 pm »
Wow this is great!! Txana irayo!
I have one question though.

Shouldn't yawn be a verb? In his letter he used tìyawnit, tì-yawn-it. We know since previously that tì- makes a verb into a noun. So yawn should be a verb then? Yawn = To love. Tíyawn = A love.

tìyawn would = "love" an abstract noun, no article needed in English.

-Keyl

Right, but that still begs the question: Shouldn't "yawn" alone, without the abstract noun deriving affix tì-, be the VERB love?  As in: Rey|Live(verb) and Tìrey|Life(abstract noun).

Another question: Did Frommer have the list of new vocab set aside or was that Seabass' doing, extracting the words from the paragraph?
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Keylstxatsmen

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2010, 03:13:37 pm »
Eylan already has the dative case though.  To the best of my knowledge, it is as nonsensical to combine a noun case and adposition as it is to combine two noun cases.

"oehuri" (EDIT or "hu oeri") wouldn't make sense? It does in Japanese 俺とは ore-to wa.  

-Keyl
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 03:15:25 pm by Keylstxatsmen »
Oeru lì'fya leNa'vi prrte’ leiu nìtxan! 

Txo nga new leskxawnga tawtutehu nìNa'vi pivängkxo, oeru 'upxaret fpe' ulte ngaru srungit tayìng oel.  Faylì'ut alor nume 'awsiteng ko!

Offline wisnij

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2010, 03:18:57 pm »
might act as a (to borrow a programmer's term) low-precedence conjunction when used standalone like that, but a high-precedence adposition when used as a suffix: 'eylan karyu ayngeyä "your friend and teacher".
Wé cildra biddaþ þé, éalá láréow, þæt þú taéce ús sprecan rihte, forþám ungelaérede wé sindon, and gewæmmodlíce we sprecaþ.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2010, 03:21:36 pm »
Uploaded.

Derived *kangkem and *yawn, the verb. While assuming that tìyawn is the noun.

Offline bagget00

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2010, 03:24:22 pm »
Irayo ma tsmukan
"meoauniaea" (meh-oh-ah-oo-nee-ah-eh-ah). "Don't ask me what it means - I haven't assigned a meaning yet. But I love the word!" Frommer said.

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Offline Tanax

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2010, 03:25:10 pm »
Wow this is great!! Txana irayo!
I have one question though.

Shouldn't yawn be a verb? In his letter he used tìyawnit, tì-yawn-it. We know since previously that tì- makes a verb into a noun. So yawn should be a verb then? Yawn = To love. Tíyawn = A love.

tìyawn would = "love" an abstract noun, no article needed in English.

-Keyl

I know, I wrote "A love" just to make it clear that it's a noun. Tìyawn would be used when talking about "your love"(that you give me) or "my love"(that I give you) to name a few examples. Yawn would be used when talking about "I love Neytiri" or "You love Na'vi"(don't you?).

Question still remains though. Yawn should be a verb if I didn't misunderstand the whole thing.

Offline suomichris

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2010, 03:25:25 pm »
Uploaded.

Derived *kangkem and *yawn, the verb. While assuming that tìyawn is the noun.
Irayo!  It looks like "kangkem" is probably a ... Hrm... It has that tì, but it is also showing up with a following si....

EDIT: Meh, never mind for now, I suppose.  I wonder if kangkem has a slightly different meaning than just "work," though, since one wonders why you would "do work" when you can "work."
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 03:29:15 pm by suomichris »

Offline suomichris

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2010, 03:28:13 pm »
One good thing for us to notice, too, is his use of aspect versus tense: fpole', perey, etc.

Offline Keylstxatsmen

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2010, 03:30:02 pm »
Uploaded.

Derived *kangkem and *yawn, the verb. While assuming that tìyawn is the noun.

I would be good to know who it was that wrote the bottom portion of the message though.  Since they specifically state that these things cannot be done.

-Keyl
Oeru lì'fya leNa'vi prrte’ leiu nìtxan! 

Txo nga new leskxawnga tawtutehu nìNa'vi pivängkxo, oeru 'upxaret fpe' ulte ngaru srungit tayìng oel.  Faylì'ut alor nume 'awsiteng ko!

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2010, 03:30:51 pm »
"nìftxavang" ??  Stress marks on "ftx"?  Typo, should be "nìftxavang"?

  - Eri

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2010, 03:31:26 pm »
I'm waiting for that information, as well. My guess is that there was more to the message. I want them to say that.

Offline wm.annis

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2010, 03:35:30 pm »
Quote
...oer fìtxan...
...oeru ye'rìn...
But then we have this.

Right.  Apparently free variation.  ;)
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Prrton

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2010, 03:35:52 pm »
Quote
horentisì lì'fyayä

sì is an adposition?

-Keyl

Doesn't have to be (except in some of the advanced honorifics), but it's very convenient when you need one genitive noun to modify multiple other nouns or your have a locative particle or something in there too.

e.g.: Mìpxehllpxìltur tawsì akewong lehrrapa eana ioang swiräsì teya serängi.

I'm pretty sure that's viable.

Offline Keylstxatsmen

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2010, 03:39:23 pm »
Quote
...oer fìtxan...
...oeru ye'rìn...
But then we have this.

Right.  Apparently free variation.  ;)

:)  It *almost* fits a pattern... stupid f.

-Keyl
Oeru lì'fya leNa'vi prrte’ leiu nìtxan! 

Txo nga new leskxawnga tawtutehu nìNa'vi pivängkxo, oeru 'upxaret fpe' ulte ngaru srungit tayìng oel.  Faylì'ut alor nume 'awsiteng ko!

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2010, 03:41:17 pm »
"Spivaw" - Typo?  Should be "Spivaw" ?

  - Eri

Offline Eight

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2010, 03:42:06 pm »
Sorry if this is a bad time to ask but

'eylan friend (plurals: meylan(2), pxeylan(3), ayeylan(4+), eylan(lenited))

I'm not entirely sure where we got px(e) from (can't see it in the letter) but anyway :), does this mean that me- and px(e)- are confirmed to trigger lenition?

Offline Toruk Makto

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Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2010, 03:42:22 pm »
I bet the good Doctor is lurking in here right now watching the feeding frenzy.


Thanks Prof!

Lì’fyari leNa’vi ’Rrtamì, vay set ’almong a fra’u zera’u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://eanaeltu.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

 

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