Author Topic: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter  (Read 17087 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WannabeNavi

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: 0
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2010, 04:24:15 pm »
What date are we expecting the pocket guide to be updated on?
oeyä tsko ríyol ulte oeyä swizawayoeng tsíywayon!

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2010, 04:25:35 pm »
horen can work. Just delete the ay+ or me+, as it's redundant. Or pxe+, for that matter.

Temporarily removed *kangkem and *tìyawn, pending further information. 
Er, as far as I'm aware only ay+ can be dropped, me+ and pxe+ still convey additional information that would be lost if you dropped them.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Taronyu

  • Meals on wheels
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2714
  • Karma: 154
  • Lacho Calad! Drego Morn!
    • Burnt Fen
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2010, 04:31:02 pm »
horen can work. Just delete the ay+ or me+, as it's redundant. Or pxe+, for that matter.

Temporarily removed *kangkem and *tìyawn, pending further information. 
Er, as far as I'm aware only ay+ can be dropped, me+ and pxe+ still convey additional information that would be lost if you dropped them.

Ah, alright. My bad.

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: 15
  • Skxawng Makto
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2010, 04:45:54 pm »
This is so great!  I can't wait to pour through it!

Too bad I have to go to stupid class.... grumbles about students


[EnglishGrammarNaziMode]
Hmm, methinks English is not the class you teach ;)

The word here, "pour", should be "pore."
[/EnglishGrammarNaziMode]

Sorry it has been bugging me since I read it!

Also:

KE TSUN lì'u kemä livu tìkenongfa "y-ol-awn" Kehe Kehe! Fì'u lu koren a Karyu Pawl zola'u.

Then why the flying heck did he use tì- if "yawm" is ALREADY a noun?  I understand that you say Frommer himself asserted that "yawm" can only be a noun, but what explanation is there for tìyawm then? ???
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Kiliyä

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Karma: 8
  • Olo' Ostreylie
    • Wild Dog Wargaming
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2010, 04:57:03 pm »
No, I think he means tìyawn is already a noun, and can't be broken down further.
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline Tanax

  • Tawtute
  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • Karma: 3
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2010, 04:58:37 pm »
Uploaded.

Derived *kangkem and *yawn, the verb. While assuming that tìyawn is the noun.

I would be good to know who it was that wrote the bottom portion of the message though.  Since they specifically state that these things cannot be done.

-Keyl

Tsaswirä lu oe.

Ayoengur vay set ke lu horen amuiä fpi lì'u kemä "kangkem" ta Karyu Pawl.  Rä'ä si sat! Nìmun pol horenìt fpi fìlì'u fpaye', slä ke vay set!!

lì'u 'uyä "yawn" tsun livu lì'u 'uyä nì'aw. KE TSUN lì'u kemä livu tìkenongfa "y-ol-awn" Kehe Kehe! Fì'u lu koren a Karyu Pawl zola'u. Ayoengur vay set fra'u a ayoeng zene tslivam fte pivlltxe fìlì'ut nìlì'u lekem.



If you are having trouble with Prrton's words here are some hints:

lì'u kemä = verb and lì'u 'uyä = noun

And some some give-aways:

-Keyl

So why did Frommer use tì- yawn if yawn is already a noun??

Offline Kiliyä

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Karma: 8
  • Olo' Ostreylie
    • Wild Dog Wargaming
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2010, 04:59:15 pm »
No, I think he means tìyawn is already a noun, and can't be broken down further.
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline wm.annis

  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3074
  • Karma: 143
  • Translate the meaning, not the words!
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2010, 05:00:34 pm »
In purely phonetic matters — final vowel elision seems rampant with poor -e, and the good doctor is not delicate with his ejectives or the glottal stop.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: 15
  • Skxawng Makto
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2010, 05:04:04 pm »
No, I think he means tìyawn is already a noun, and can't be broken down further.

Well then why does he say:

Quote
yawn love (NB: this ONLY the noun)
.
.
.
tìkangkem work (the verb cannot be derived and conjugated directly on kang by removing )

Hmm?

Why not put "tìyawn" followed by a similar parenthetical statement as the one accompanying "tìkangkem?"
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Tanax

  • Tawtute
  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • Karma: 3
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2010, 05:07:34 pm »
No, I think he means tìyawn is already a noun, and can't be broken down further.

Well then why does he say:

Quote
yawn love (NB: this ONLY the noun)
.
.
.
tìkangkem work (the verb cannot be derived and conjugated directly on kang by removing )

Hmm?

Why not put "tìyawn" followed by a similar parenthetical statement as the one accompanying "tìkangkem?"

This is exactly my point.

Offline Kiliyä

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Karma: 8
  • Olo' Ostreylie
    • Wild Dog Wargaming
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2010, 05:08:47 pm »
Hmm?

Why not put "tìyawn" followed by a similar parenthetical statement as the one accompanying "tìkangkem?"
Not a clue. Point taken.  Typo?
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline Eight

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: 19
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #71 on: January 20, 2010, 05:11:22 pm »
I wonder why he didn't just say love is a noun not a verb, if that's what he meant. Why "not an action"? I'm not sure I'd call love an action anyway... more of a state/feeling really... in SFL love would be termed a mental process.

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: 15
  • Skxawng Makto
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #72 on: January 20, 2010, 05:12:20 pm »
Hmm?

Why not put "tìyawn" followed by a similar parenthetical statement as the one accompanying "tìkangkem?"
Not a clue. Point taken.  Typo?

Possible, but unlikely.

I suppose we'll have to wait for another post from Prrton to clear up this matter (after we translate it into 'ìnglìsì, of course >:/ )
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
  • Karma: 15
  • Skxawng Makto
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #73 on: January 20, 2010, 05:13:18 pm »
I wonder why he didn't just say love is a noun not a verb, if that's what he meant. Why "not an action"? I'm not sure I'd call love an action anyway... more of a state/feeling really... in SFL love would be termed a mental process.

He didn't say it wasn't an action, he said it wasn't "lì'u kemä" :: "word of action," meaning verb.
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline NeotrekkerZ

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 688
  • Karma: 40
  • Nume ralit lì'fyayä ulte nga tayìran Eywahu.
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #74 on: January 20, 2010, 05:14:58 pm »
I didn't see this listed on SeaBass's post:

peng to let know, inform

Also, anyone know what sivi is?  I can't seem to find it.
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline Keylstxatsmen

  • Omatikaya
  • ****
  • *
  • Posts: 478
  • Karma: 20
    • Letrra Na'vi
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #75 on: January 20, 2010, 05:16:05 pm »
No, I think he means tìyawn is already a noun, and can't be broken down further.

Tsaswirä lu oe.
That creature be me.
It was me.

Ayoengur vay set ke lu horen amuiä fpi lì'u kemä "kangkem" ta Karyu Pawl.

we(inclus.)-<DAT> up-to now not be rules correct for word-action "kangkem" from teacher Paul.

As of now, we don't have the correct rules for the verb "kangkem" from Prof. Paul.

Rä'ä si sattsa'ut! Nìmun pol horenìt fpi fìlì'u fpaye', slä ke vay set!
!
Don't do nowthat<ACC>! Again he rules<ACC> for this-word will send, but (has) not up-to now!!

Don't use it yet.  He will again send rules for this word, but (has) not yet!!

lì'u 'uyä "yawn" tsun livu lì'u 'uyä nì'aw. KE TSUN lì'u kemä livu tìkenongfa "y-ol-awn" Kehe Kehe!

Word-thing "yawn" can be word-thing only. Not can verb be example-for "y-ol-awn" no no!

The noun "yawn" can only be a noun.  It can't be a verb for example: "y-ol-awn", no no!

Fì'u lu koren a Karyu Pawl zola'u.

This is rule that Teach Paul come<PER>.

This is the rule that has come from Prof. Frommer.

Ayoengur vay set fra'u a ayoeng zene tslivam fte pivlltxe fìlì'ut nìlì'u lekem ke lu.

We-all<DAT> up-to now everything that we must understand for speak this word like-word-action not be.

We (do not) yet (have) everything that we need to understand to say this word as a verb.

-Keyl

Edited b/c things weren't quite right.

Tweaked slightly again by me/Prrton (with the exception of adding tì- to yawn (which it MUST have)) with brown.) Overall the gist of this has been correct all day, with the exception again of the vital tì- on tìyawn which was a HUGE typo/screw-up on my part).

Oefpi fraporu oe tsap'alute suyi nìmun tsnì 'awkrr oe slängu skxawng nìteng nìwotx! Please forgive me.
I humbly apologize for myself to everyone that I also become a total moron from time to time. Oeru txoa livuyu.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 03:04:56 am by Keylstxatsmen »
Oeru lì'fya leNa'vi prrte’ leiu nìtxan! 

Txo nga new leskxawnga tawtutehu nìNa'vi pivängkxo, oeru 'upxaret fpe' ulte ngaru srungit tayìng oel.  Faylì'ut alor nume 'awsiteng ko!

Offline Eight

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: 19
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #76 on: January 20, 2010, 05:16:26 pm »
He didn't say it wasn't an action, he said it wasn't "lì'u kemä" :: "word of action," meaning verb.
That's what I get for reading the spoiler instead of the Na'vi. :D

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #77 on: January 20, 2010, 05:17:11 pm »
I didn't see this listed on SeaBass's post:

peng to let know, inform

Also, anyone know what sivi is?  I can't seem to find it.
We already had "peng" in our vocab, in both bare and compound words.  (ral+peng = interpret for example)

sivi is just "si" with the subjunctive.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Eight

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: 19
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #78 on: January 20, 2010, 05:18:15 pm »
The noun "yawn" can only be a noun".  It can't be a verb for example: "y-ol-awn", no no!
Which still begs the question as to why he had to recode it into tiyawnit... why not yawnit?

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Language Update - a closer look at Dr. Frommer's letter
« Reply #79 on: January 20, 2010, 05:19:28 pm »
Because maybe the word IS "tìyawn" and it's not actually tì+yawn?
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy
| XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, or the Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi