Author Topic: Frommerian Email  (Read 4797 times)

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Offline Kiliyä

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2010, 08:50:09 pm »
Can you ask him some vocab questions?

Like... to find?
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2010, 09:33:04 pm »
(I know he's going to read this, anyway, though.)

Added to the Canon.  http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=Canon#Frommer_Reading_List

  - Eri

(Kidding.  KIDDING!!)

Offline roger

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2010, 11:14:43 pm »
That having been said: Should we compile a list of verbs I should send? (I know he's going to read this, anyway, though.)

rikx!  "I move" vs. "I move the branch."  Is it as simple as oe rikx vs. vulit oel rikx?
That's a very different kind of change than 'hunt' or 'wait'. In those verbs, the action is the same whether transitive or intransitive; the difference is in whether the object is pertinent to the conversation. In "I move" vs. "I move the branch", however, entirely different actions are involved. I wouldn't be surprised if those were two distinct verbs, or if the second were a causitive form: "I cause the branch to move": ??oel si futa vul rivikx, perhaps.

Offline suomichris

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2010, 11:25:59 pm »
That having been said: Should we compile a list of verbs I should send? (I know he's going to read this, anyway, though.)

rikx!  "I move" vs. "I move the branch."  Is it as simple as oe rikx vs. vulit oel rikx?
That's a very different kind of change than 'hunt' or 'wait'. In those verbs, the action is the same whether transitive or intransitive; the difference is in whether the object is pertinent to the conversation. In "I move" vs. "I move the branch", however, entirely different actions are involved. I wouldn't be surprised if those were two distinct verbs, or if the second were a causitive form: "I cause the branch to move": ??oel si futa vul rivikx, perhaps.
Or even something with tìng, as in yomtìng?  That's probably only going to show up for benefactives, though... Nevermind...

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2010, 05:29:16 am »
rikx!  "I move" vs. "I move the branch."  Is it as simple as oe rikx vs. vulit oel rikx?

I take the added definition "shift position" to mean that this verb is intransitive in nature. There was a similar case in Klingon with the verb vIH move, be in motion, that was for some time interpreted as ambitransitive, but eventually it was confirmed that the definition "move" was there mostly as a familiar lookup anchor and that the intended meaning was intransitive. "Move" as a transitive verb is therefore vIHmoH, with the causative suffix -moH. Given the translation "move, shift position" for the Na'vi word, I suspect we have a similar situation here, although the answer may well be another verb entirely.

Roger suggested the use of si for Na'vi causatives, which seems plausible enough to me. More ideas on this subject? Any clues out there?

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Is.

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2010, 11:32:56 am »
<adds letrr and kxeyey to personal flash card training program>

Congratulations on adding a new word to the Na'vi language, Taronyu!  :D Imagine how cool it'll be if they use it in Avatar 2 - then you can so demand royalty from the total movie gross! Haha.

And we don't know what the <eng> as in sengi means yet, no?

Offline roger

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2010, 11:36:30 am »
Roger suggested the use of si for Na'vi causatives, which seems plausible enough to me. More ideas on this subject? Any clues out there?
There's also the -tem in latem. I'm not suggesting we use these forms, just saying that I could imagine them being used.

Offline wm.annis

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2010, 03:57:26 pm »
The use of oeru teya si for "(the rhythm ...) fills me" (Weaving Song) suggests a role for si in creating causatives from adjectives, at least.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline roger

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2010, 04:24:04 pm »
The use of oeru teya si for "(the rhythm ...) fills me" (Weaving Song) suggests a role for si in creating causatives from adjectives, at least.
Good point, though the patient is still in the dative is that case.

Offline wm.annis

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2010, 04:27:25 pm »
Good point, though the patient is still in the dative is that case.

In many languages the case disposition of formal causatives is often strange.  Granted, an intransitive causative sounds funkier than usual.

Maybe my title should be "the neurotic typologist."
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A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Fpeioyuyä 'ite

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2010, 08:01:25 pm »
So, I've read through this thread, and I'm still not entirely understanding the purpose of futa. (I also apologize if this sort of interrupts the flow of conversation, as I'm pretty tired and "read this thread" means "read the first page"and ctrl-f'd my way through the rest of it)
I understand the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs (at least in English and German), but wouldn't Frommer's example, "Oel new futa Taronyu kivä", also make sense as "Oel new Taronyuti kivä"? Isn't the first one sort of saying, "I want that which [this thing which] Taronyu to go"? What is the grammatical function of futa?
Formerly Kerofish, in case you were wondering. Also occasionally known as kerofish1 or Delaney. Call me anything, just not skxawng!

Offline roger

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Re: Frommerian Email
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2010, 09:01:37 pm »
So, I've read through this thread, and I'm still not entirely understanding the purpose of futa. (I also apologize if this sort of interrupts the flow of conversation, as I'm pretty tired and "read this thread" means "read the first page"and ctrl-f'd my way through the rest of it)
I understand the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs (at least in English and German), but wouldn't Frommer's example, "Oel new futa Taronyu kivä", also make sense as "Oel new Taronyuti kivä"? Isn't the first one sort of saying, "I want that which [this thing which] Taronyu to go"? What is the grammatical function of futa?
The latter would mean "I want Taronyu" plus "that (I? he? we?) go". It's not clear who's going, and you're saying you want him, rather than want his going.

So what you say is "I want this thing" (fì'ut), and then with the a define "this thing" to be "Taronyu goes". The same kind of thing happened in English, which is why we use the word "that" (as in "that thing") to pull double duty as "that" (as in "I want that X happen").
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 09:05:07 pm by roger »

 

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