Author Topic: spatial words  (Read 1088 times)

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Offline roger

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spatial words
« on: March 12, 2010, 03:22:19 pm »
There is a noun pa'o "side". It looks like this means spatial "side" as in "which side?", "left side", etc, not as in anatomical flank/ribs, but that is not clear. Anyway, it appears to form several spatial derivations:

   pa "top" N
   kllpa "bottom" N
   mìfa (either stress) "inside" N, ADV
   wrrpa "outside" N, ADV

I'm guessing that the in fäpa is the f in the adposition fkip "up among". It's also found in the adverb

   ne "up" (direction) ADV

to go with our existing nekll "down".

Then from (I presume) hapxì "part" and our andative/venitive? prefixes/serial verbs kä, za, we get:

   zapxì "front" (front part or section) N
   pxì "rear" (rear part or section) N

Interesting that coming is in front and going is in back.

We've got another new derivative,

   satseng "out there" ADV

Don't know if that's dissimilation from the other ts or what. It wouldn't seem to be lenition after , since there's no lenition in käpxì (unless lenition would've applied to kähapxì, with subsequent contraction??)

I wonder if we get a corresponding ??zafìtseng "in here"?

PS. Note also long-known ta’em "from above". I wonder if there's a ??ne'em "to above" that's distinct from nefä "upwards", like tswayon nefä "fly upwards, ascend" vs. ??tswayon ne'em toruk "fly above the leonopteryx".
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 03:38:15 pm by roger »

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: spatial words
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 03:26:12 pm »
Tsaw nìhawng käsatseng lu...

(Yay, translating idioms literally! :D)

Maybe the sa in käsatseng is plural, since out there is a big thing with many places.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Re: spatial words
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 03:28:25 pm »
These updates are just wonderful. Thanks.

Offline roger

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Re: spatial words
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 03:31:20 pm »
Maybe the sa in käsatseng is plural, since out there is a big thing with many places.

Nice thought! I've been asking for plurals of our interrogatives & demonstratives, but haven't gotten an answer yet.

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: spatial words
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 03:33:19 pm »
Irayo. Oeru frakrr prrte' lu fwa mipa aylì'ut tse'a oel ::) Set oe zene tslivam tsayut nìwotx :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Taronyu

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Re: spatial words
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 03:37:20 pm »
Did you ask whether fa was the noun and mìfa was the adverb? Seems like a valid question, given the way Frommer gave them to us.

Offline NeotrekkerZ

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Re: spatial words
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 04:01:40 pm »
Quote
  zapxì "front" (front part or section) N
   käpxì "rear" (rear part or section) N

Interesting that coming is in front and going is in back.

I've been thinking for a while now about za when used as a prefix.  It seems to indicate motion/actions towards the body:

'ärìp to move
za'ärìp to pull (move towards the body)

munge to take
zamunge to bring (to take towards the body)
This is a little iffy, but I was taught in English that you "take it to someone else, but bring it to me."

This makes zapxì seem very natural to me, as I think of my body in terms of the front and not the back.

Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline roger

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Re: spatial words
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 04:03:36 pm »
Did you ask whether fa was the noun and mìfa was the adverb? Seems like a valid question, given the way Frommer gave them to us.
Didn't ask.

Wrrpa is also given an "N, ADV". I assume mìpa is the same, just w variable stress as several other words are. Otherwise I presume one would be listed under N and one under ADV.

 

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