Author Topic: more grammatical tidbits  (Read 2724 times)

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Offline roger

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more grammatical tidbits
« on: March 13, 2010, 03:48:34 pm »
Since I've been asked to combine releases, I plan on adding to this post over the next couple days, so you might want to check back.

conjunctions &c.: however, although, instead

We've finally got Grace's first line!

Tsun tivam. Aylì’u ngian nì’it skepek lu.
Not bad. (= [that] can do.) You sound rather formal. (= [your] words, however, are a bit formal.)

ngian = however ADV
skepek = formal (stress not confirmed; taken from the film)

I don't know if ngian can be used as a conjunction ("I'll make it however you like.") However (ngian), I imagine that that might be spelled out as "that way which (you like)", and that ngian is only used as an adverb, as here. (Frommer only glosses it as an adverb.)

We do have a couple other conjunctions, hufwa I don't have examples of their use:

hufwa = although CONJ
tup = instead of, rather than CONJ

I assume hufwa is a compound of hu 'together with' and fwa 'that' (subordinating conjunction), as in "with = given that I want to go" --> "although I want to go", but it's not too clear to me.

It would be cool if we could say ??poru ngatup "(gave it) to him rather than you", but I don't know if we can. We'd lose the dative on "you" that way, which could be a problem. (Could be read as "I rather than you gave it to him".)

indefinite pronouns
Made by tacking -o on a noun:

'uo something
tuteo somebody
tsengo somewhere

Wonder if there's a connection between this -o and the o- that seems to derive oeyk 'a cause' from eyk 'to lead'.

how much/many
We have holpxay 'number' from hol 'few' + pxay 'many'. Add pe and we get holpxaype, polpxay "how many".

Same thing w "how much": txan is 'much' (great quantity), a new word hìm 'a little' (small quantity), for hìmtxan 'amount' and hìmtxampe, pìmtxan "how much".

Note the contraction so that the pe is always adjacent to the stress. In ’upe, pe’u "what (word)" the stress shifts for the same result; I'm not sure yet if it's supposed to or if that was a typo. Anyway, that's all the preconstructed interrogatives.

[end of updates]
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 09:49:47 am by roger »

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2010, 04:00:22 pm »
Tewti! Set oel tslolam tsaylì'ut ulte prrte' leiu :D
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Plumps

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2010, 04:30:47 pm »
Irayo futa ngal ayoengar tìng fìfmawnit :)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 02:14:47 pm by Plumps83 »

Offline NeotrekkerZ

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2010, 10:03:05 pm »
Hufwa awnga nolume txana ayu, oe frakrr nolew ivomum ralit faylì'uyä.  Txantsan!
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline Skyinou

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2010, 03:50:04 am »
It would be cool if we could say ??poru ngatup "(gave it) to him rather than you", but I don't know if we can. We'd lose the dative on "you" that way, which could be a problem. (Could be read as "I rather than you gave it to him".)
Why not "ngarutup" then?
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Offline roger

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2010, 04:03:39 am »
I don't know if we can double up case/adposition endings like that. If we can, then that would work.

Offline Plumps

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2010, 02:18:21 pm »
But that would work against all we've learned so far and only confuse all those who wanted to put case endings on nouns after adpositions ... Frommer always uses the 'nominative' / caseless form of the (pro)noun after an adposition.

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2010, 02:36:59 pm »
Tewti! Irayo ;) Txantsana fmawm a san -o sìk, san holpxaype sìk sì lahe...
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Skyinou

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2010, 03:16:28 pm »
I don't know if we can double up case/adposition endings like that. If we can, then that would work.
We already have "horentisì" from Frommer, is it different from a linguistical point of view?
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2010, 03:40:09 pm »
sì isn't an adposition, it's a conjunction.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline roger

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2010, 05:51:04 pm »
Tup, like sì, is labeled a conjunction.

Offline NeotrekkerZ

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2010, 10:27:36 pm »
Quote
indefinite pronouns
Made by tacking -o on a noun:

'uo something
tuteo somebody
tsengo somewhere

So is someone fkoyo, fko, or something else?
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2010, 12:06:24 am »
Someone in English is a synonym for somebody, so tuteo I would use for someone.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline NeotrekkerZ

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2010, 12:13:21 am »
Ah yes, a much easier way.
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline roger

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2010, 12:28:37 am »
It's actually glossed as "someone", but I'm trying to keep "X-one" for po-derivatives and "X-body" for tute-derivatives. Not really a meaningful distinction in English, but we may have a difference in Na'vi between tsa'u "that thing", tsapo "that one (animate)", and tsatu "that person": it's not yet clear.

Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2010, 02:19:41 pm »
Someone in English is a synonym for somebody, so tuteo I would use for someone.

Whats worse is all of the dictionaries use some person as the definition for finding synonyms. LOL

However there are two definitions.

pronoun . An unspecified or unknown person.

n. A person of unique qualities.


It is possible that these definitions are segregated.
私は太った男だ。


Offline Taronyu

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Re: more grammatical tidbits
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2010, 06:53:58 pm »
Added everything.

 

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