Author Topic: OK! we got "OK"  (Read 3383 times)

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Offline Prrton

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OK! we got "OK"
« on: February 19, 2010, 02:55:14 pm »
Quote from: Pawl Frommer to Prrton 18 Feb. 2010 via e-mail
... go with "tam."

As you know, the verb means "suffice, 'do'" as in, "That'll do."

In the film, I think Grace says "Tsun tivam" in response to Norm's (very good, if formal) Na'vi. Or at least that was once going to be in the film. (As I mentioned, I have a hard time keeping track of what wound up in the final version and what got cut.)

So saying "tam" for "OK" seems appropriate. It's easy to say...

Tam!, tsat sar ko, ma oeyä eylan!


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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 02:58:14 pm »
Tam, oe tsun tsakem sivi.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline Eight

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 03:00:08 pm »
Tam, tslolam.

Irayo.

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 03:14:55 pm »
Tam.

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 03:42:32 pm »
Irayo, ma tsmukan!
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Offline 'eylan na'viyä

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 03:49:39 pm »
so much new stuff within the last time

irayo nitxan ma prrton sì karyu pawl

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 04:28:28 pm »
so much new stuff within the last time

I think Pawl just wants us to enjoy our weekends. :)

Offline Plumps

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 02:56:20 am »
I think Pawl just wants us to enjoy our weekends. :)

... and he's doing a pretty good job ;D
Tam, ne tìkangkem...

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2010, 09:27:01 am »
I know it may be somewhat necroing but it is pertinent to this thread.

"OK" in English can refer to many, many things.  For some of these usages, "tam" / suffice, is... well... OK, but other usages, I'm not OK with using "Tam."

It's intended meaning - "(O)All's (K)Correct" lends itself to usages like:
"I'm OK" (I'm all-correct) for when you are uninjured.

As a play on this, before this email was made public, we developed our own word for OK in Skype chat:

"Fra'ey" -- "Fra'u+eyawr" -- All.thing Correct.

Personally, I like this better than "Tam," because it can be used as a more affirmative and positive OK than "that'll do," which conveys a somewhat negative connotation that suggests "I guess that'll just barely work for what I want" (which OK can do, but need not always be so).

My suggestion is that maybe we can use "tam" for OK when it is applicable, and our "fra'ey" construction for other cases where it seems more applicable.

"Seems OK to me." - Tam OR Fra'ey
"Well, that's OK, but..." - Tam
"Don't worry, I'll be OK!" - Fra'ey
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Skyinou

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2010, 10:02:17 am »
I understand your point here, and agree with your way of thinking, but:

"Seems OK to me." - Tam OR Fra'ey
"Well, that's OK, but..." - Tam
"Don't worry, I'll be OK!" -Fra'ey

That's just some english idioms here...
So why not taking "tam" as a Na'vi idiom and treat it that way  :P


The use Prrton use here is in the beginning of the sentence or alone:
Tam!, tsat sar ko, ma oeyä eylan!
Where "Tam" goes pretty well in the sense of: enough, we have enough, we know enough
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 10:08:18 am by Skyinou »
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Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 10:26:28 am »
It is English idiom, and that's precisely my purpose for introducing another word.

Those sentences I used aren't really idiomatic when you look at OK as "all-correct."

"Seems all-correct to me" - Straightforward, no obscured meaning.
"Well, that's all-correct, but..." - Here's where "suffice" would have a better meaning, so this one is more idiomatic than the others.
"Don't worry, I'll be all-correct!" - Again, straightforward.

As you see, I was trying to escape the English idiom of one, all-inclusive word for "OK" like "Tam."  English uses it for both suffice and all-correct.  My suggestion is that the Na'vi be less idiomatic in its usage, with a word for each use.
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 10:39:07 am »
My suggestion is that the Na'vi be less idiomatic in its usage, with a word for each use.

I take your point and agree whole-heartedly.  Personally, I hope for Na'vi in general to be as idiomatic as English (well, almost as, anyway)... but with different idioms.

  - Eri

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 11:55:14 am »
There is bound to be some overlap in idioms though.  They are idioms for a reason - that it is such a common phrase that people wanted a short and easy way to say it.
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Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 12:46:53 pm »
True - It just seemed much less likely, to me, that a word defined to be "suffice" would be used for both usages, and not a word in its own right distinctly for that purpose (like OK is).

Because "tam" is used to mean "suffice," it seemed like there would likely be another word similarly "idiomized" and contracted down (due to excessive use) that would apply to the other meaning that the English "OK" is typically employed for.
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Skyinou

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 07:03:04 pm »
My suggestion is that the Na'vi be less idiomatic in its usage, with a word for each use.
French has no idiom for something like "ok"*. So you are right, Na'vi could not have one either (or one with some na'vi roots). But I was thinking: now that it's too late, we can just find a way to like it, rather than a way to find it stupid. ;D

*we eventually use "ok", but that's "modern"-french. Not grammaticaly correct.
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Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2010, 08:24:57 am »
Yeah, "OK" is the most widely spoken and understood word all across Earth, but that's the Earth.

I suppose, given time, the Na'vi would likely pick up "Okey" from the humans on Pandora, but as you said, they might not even have a word that works like "OK."

With that in mind, I suppose we have to use what words they do have to translate "OK" into something they'd understand (thinking from the mindset of a human explaining "OK" to a Na'vi).

In this way, tam might be the closest word - Maybe not as close as "fra'u eyawr," but I think the purpose would be lost with such a long expression, and the contracted version "fra'ey" probably wouldn't be readily accepted.
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 11:11:43 am »
French has no idiom for something like "ok"*.

*we eventually use "ok", but that's "modern"-french. Not grammaticaly correct.

what about d'accord?
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2010, 01:29:49 pm »
French has no idiom for something like "ok"*.

*we eventually use "ok", but that's "modern"-french. Not grammaticaly correct.

what about d'accord?

I actually thought that was "ok" as well.

Offline Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2010, 01:39:13 pm »
We use OK a lot in french and before that, "bien" (good) was widely used.

Quote from: Pawl Frommer to Prrton 18 Feb. 2010 via e-mail
In the film, I think Grace says "Tsun tivam" in response to Norm's (very good, if formal) Na'vi.

Damn! We got so close to finally know how to write "formal"  ;D
Fìtsenge kifkey nìswey livu txo ayoe nìNa'vi perlltxeie. Ngal 'awstengyem olo'it fpi tskxekeng.

Offline Skyinou

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Re: OK! we got "OK"
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2010, 05:41:02 pm »
French has no idiom for something like "ok"*.

*we eventually use "ok", but that's "modern"-french. Not grammaticaly correct.

what about d'accord?

I wouldn't translate "d'accord" by "ok", because "d'accord" is used only for one meaning and use of "ok"
When it's used alone as a complete answer by itself. And there, you can also say "agree" I think. (agree = d'accord , basically)
These three can't be translate with "d'accord":
"Seems OK to me." - Tam OR Fra'ey
"Well, that's OK, but..." - Tam
"Don't worry, I'll be OK!" -Fra'ey
and the other way: But: I'm ok =/= Je suis d'accord (I agree) Which could cause some misunderstandings.

"bien" is actually "well", not "good".
And the only shared meanings with "ok" are: "Seems OK to me." => "ça me semble bien", and again, using it alone as a complete answer(or just "it's ok" = "c'est bien" but here we may want to use "bon" = "good" instead, which begin to make things complicated).
"Well, that's OK, but..." => with the negation, we should not use "C'est bien, mais..." for translating that
"Don't worry, I'll be OK!" => you can't translate by "bien" here. You use it for "je vais bien", which is a completely different idiom.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 06:29:49 pm by Skyinou »
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