Frommerian words and our wiki vocabulary.

[wm.annis]

Starting a bit more than a week ago Frommer has been copying his email replies to people's Na'vi questions to a few people.  The main Wikipedia article editor gets a copy, I get a copy, Prrton sometimes gets a copy and sometimes a few other people do (many from this forum).

When I get these I dump them into the LearnNavi.org wiki (assuming someone else hasn't already done so).  We've reached a point where I'm going to stop dropping all of Frommer's email into the Canon page in one particular situation — vocabulary lists.  It seems awfully silly to cut-n-paste new words onto one page of the wiki, only to create a dictionary entry on a different page of the same wiki.  Anything I get about grammar, or special elaborations about a particular word usage, will still be treated in the usual way.

I realize this presents a bit of a sourcing problem, but we'll have cross-validation for all new vocab.  Tarnoyu and the main editor of the Wikipedia (who works on the Wiktionary Na'vi Appendix) will also be getting copies of vocab-related email.  A word in all three places is sound.  Note that we're still missing some ASG vocab in the LN.org wiki — we've been more focused on new words and examples there, but we're nearly complete with ASG vocab, too.  Note also that not all of us getting email from Frommer edit at the same pace.  The Wiktionary already has the data from recent email that I've not gotten to yet.

[Erimeyz]

A great big thank-you is due from the LN community to you, Na'rìghawnu, Ochristi, Roger, Taronyu, Kwami, and everyone else who's been working so diligently to compile and document all the information we've gotten from Pawl.

I do hope that when he sends an email, even if it's just a word list, that someone at least posts it on the forum.

  - Eri

[Na'rìghawnu]

Sorry for awaking this thread again ... I was ill last week and wasn't able to check the forum. What William wrote about not giving vocablists any longer in the canon page but only to put the words into the vocabulary seems rational to me too. Unfortunately this will widely disqualify me from contributing to the vocabulary site any longer, since I'm not on Frommer's "mailing-list" and never got any mail from him. All what I contributed to the vocabulary was taken out of the ASG and - exspecially - out of my scrupulous word-by-word-analysis of the corpus-texts and canon-snippets, to find out the words and morphemes, which didn't exist in the vocabulary yet. Any time I got one, I inserted it into the vocabulary. Since I try to do it very diligently, I'm only at the "MND"-vocab at the moment, but there shoud be no single word or morpheme from the texts and snippets preceding it, which isn't in the dictionary and didn't get it's sourcing ... with exeption of Jake's script (which I didn't include at all at the moment) and some words still to discuss and marked red in my personal analyzing-papers.

Well ... since at least our leading Na'viists seem to get Frommer's mails, it's up to you to keep us updated with words, which weren't accessible to the rest of us otherwise. Thank you all for your engagement!

[wm.annis]

Unfortunately this will widely disqualify me from contributing to the vocabulary site any longer, since I'm not on Frommer's "mailing-list" and never got any mail from him.

No, no, don't go!

First of all, I make typos.  Second, as long as Karyu Pawl continues to give us examples of Na'vi, as he did just last week for the Good Morning America show, getting examples into the dictionary is still a valuable thing.  Frommer was appreciative of that aspect of the LN.org wiki vocabulary page.

[Lance R. Casey]

I do hope that when he sends an email, even if it's just a word list, that someone at least posts it on the forum.

I strongly second this. The known vocabulary is now so large that poring over a dictionary (page) to find out about new words is not really an option. I wish the recent list of verbs had been posted in its entirety somewhere, which would have saved me from doing just that...

[mjcarrier]

Yes while I see not posting everything on the canon page on the wiki at least post it somewhere. I saw this happen with the tokien language groups, information in a few hands deciding what to give and how. This caused a lot of arguments that I just don't want to see here. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying those who get the emails are being mean or selfish. But some people like to see the new stuff not have to search for it.

So this is what I gleaned were the new verbs.

'awstengyem ~ join (two things together)
'ärìp ~ move (something)
'em ~ cook
'i'a ~ end, conclude
fkxake ~ succeed
frìp ~ bite
ftem ~ pass by (something)
fwew ~ look for, seek, search
hangham ~ laugh

hawl ~ prepare

kä'ärìp ~ push

kllfro' ~ be responsible

kllkä ~ descend

latsi ~ keep up with someone

lek ~ heed, obey

len ~ happen, occur

lew ~ cover

lìm ~  far, be far

muntxa si ~ mate (with someone)
niä ~ grab

nong ~ follow, proceed after

pate ~ get to a place, arrive

pähem ~ arrive

piak si ~ open

pxor ~ explode

salew ~ proceed, go

sar ~ use
sleyku ~ produce
sngap ~ sting
sop ~ travel
spä ~ jump
speng ~ restore
spule ~ propel
srese'a ~ prophetize
steyki ~ anger, make someone angry
sti ~ angry, be angry
sto ~ refuse (to do something)
sung ~ add
syep ~ trap
tatep ~ lose
tätxaw ~ return (intransitive)
tì'awn si ~ camp
tìkangkem si ~ work
tìng tseng ~ back down, lit. give place
tìsraw seyki ~ hurt (someone or something)
tìsraw si ~ hurt, be painful
tsaheyl si ~ bond with, establish a neural connection
tsap'alute si ~ apologize
tsawl slu ~ grow
tsngawvìk ~ cry, weep
tsre'i ~ throw
tstu si ~ close
tsunslu ~ may, be possible
tsurokx ~ rest
win säpi ~ hurry
win si ~ rush something, make somthing fast
wem ~ fight
yän ~ fasten, tie down
yem ~ put place

There could be mistakes and duplications of previously known verbs.

[Erimeyz]

mj, thanks for the list!  This will be helpful to a bunch of people.  Lance did something similar recently.  The two of you may want to cross-check each others' work.

Also, you may want to cross-check Wiktionary against the LN Wiki.  As it turns out, it's not too hard to find out what got added to each of them recently, since the wikis keep complete revision histories.  I think I've found the points in time at which William started adding undocumented words to the LN Wiki (22:58, 22 February 2010) and Kwami started adding undocumented words to Wiktionary (20:37, 21 February 2010).  So the following links will show you all the changes since then, which will (I'm assuming) include all the new words:

Diff for Learn Na'vi Wiki Vocabulary page

Diff for Wiktionary Na'vi Appendix

Unfortunately, in addition to new entries, the diffs will also show all the edits to old entries, so you'll still have to wade through a bunch of extra stuff.  But if anyone really wants to see what's new, in lieu of seeing the actual emails from Frommer, this may be one way to do it.

  - Eri

[Kì'eyawn]

Irayo, ma mj!  By any chance, do we know if kllkä is transitive/intransitive?

i.e., "The ikran descended" vs. "He descended the ladder"

[Lance R. Casey]

Irayo, ma mj!  By any chance, do we know if kllkä is transitive/intransitive?

i.e., "The ikran descended" vs. "He descended the ladder"

"Ground-go". I'd expect it to be intransitive, and any tool used to carry out the action to be identified with fa:

Ikran kllkamä

Po kllkamä vulfa

[Kì'eyawn]

Irayo, ma mj!  By any chance, do we know if kllkä is transitive/intransitive?

i.e., "The ikran descended" vs. "He descended the ladder"

"Ground-go". I'd expect it to be intransitive...

Good call; i didn't notice that.  Irayo, ma tsmukan.

[mjcarrier]

Yes I guess one could look at the change log of wiki. But rather difficult to read. Just would think its much easier to post new vocabulary somewhere as people notice it. While I find it fun to discover new words by comparing old and new dictionaries. I think most people don't enjoy doing that .

Also noticed a few verbs with added definitions:
'efu ~ feel, sense, perceive
eltu si ~ listen, pay attention, quit goofing off
fmi ~ try, attempt
pängkxo ~ chat, converse, have a conversation
pänutìng ~ promise (a thing to someone)
pey ~ wait, wait for
sngä' ~ begin, start (intransitive)
steftxaw ~ examine, check
tok ~ be at, occupy a spacetxula ~ build, construct
tsranten ~ matter, be of import
zong ~ save, defend


And with a changed definition:
zawng ~ scream
lok ~ approach
mìn ~ turn [was marked a verb now]
txey ~ halt, stop

and
fkarut ~ peel
is a verb not a noun

verbs I missed:
fmal ~ sustain
kavuk si ~ betray
näk ~ drink
oeyktìng ~ explain (why)
pom ~ kiss
sim ~ near, be near
srung si ~ help
tem ~ shoot (intransitive)
toltem ~ shoot (transitive)
tungzup ~ drop
tsä' ~ squirt
txopu si ~ be afraid
zup ~ fall

spelling change
srew ~ dance


Hope that is it .

[Na'rìghawnu]

Frommer was appreciative of that aspect of the LN.org wiki vocabulary page.

Oh, really? Great to know that.

And ... no, I didn't want to say, that I leave the project, but that it's harder for people (like me), who aren't in contact with Frommer at all, to contribute to the dictionary, if his mails (or parts of them) aren't published any longer. Besides that: If Frommer appreciates the sourcing ... how will this be done now, if (in case of wordlists) the sources aren't published any longer? Will the new words get an "► (Frommer in an email known to some people)." instead of the usual link to the published source?