Author Topic: regarding attaching nì- to participles  (Read 1646 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kì'eyawn

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1779
  • Karma: 32
  • Oeru syaw "tigermind" kop.
regarding attaching nì- to participles
« on: March 24, 2011, 09:39:04 pm »
Kaltxì frapoya,

A good number of us have developed the habit of attaching nì- to participles in order to make adverbs, based on the Frommerian word nìawnomum (nì-<awn>omum).  So, for example, you might see a word *nìpawneng being used to mean "as told," or something to that effect.  So, in my most recent conversation with Karyu Pawl, i asked how he felt about this.

Regarding whether nìawnomum is the basis for a productive way of using nì- with participles, the answer was an emphatic NO.  He said, however, that the existence of nìawnomum opens the door to the possibility that there are other words in Na'vi that are constructed the same way (i.e., nì-V<awn>ERB), but these will need to be explicitly listed in the dictionary, and will not be common.

So, that means this construction is not at all productive, but nìawnomum might not be the only one of these we see.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2190
  • Karma: 23
  • Mowana tsamsiyu aean alu Tsyeyk <3
    • Facebook
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2011, 12:44:15 am »
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu




AvatarMeet was fantastic. Thanks to all who attended :D

Avatar Nation Karyu :D

Na'vi Kintrrä #70° :D

Keyeyluke ke tsun livu kea tìnusume

Oeri Uniltìrantokxìl txe'lanit nì'aw takeiuk nì'ul txa' fralo

Fpìl na Na'vi. Plltxe na Na'vi. Tìran na Na'vi. Kame na Na'vi

Offline 'Oma Tirea

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3874
  • Karma: 50
  • Na'vi... sleru... rusti...
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2011, 02:47:32 am »
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2190
  • Karma: 23
  • Mowana tsamsiyu aean alu Tsyeyk <3
    • Facebook
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2011, 03:55:58 am »
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

Fwana or futana? Peu?  :-\ Are those even possible?

-Txonä Rolyu




AvatarMeet was fantastic. Thanks to all who attended :D

Avatar Nation Karyu :D

Na'vi Kintrrä #70° :D

Keyeyluke ke tsun livu kea tìnusume

Oeri Uniltìrantokxìl txe'lanit nì'aw takeiuk nì'ul txa' fralo

Fpìl na Na'vi. Plltxe na Na'vi. Tìran na Na'vi. Kame na Na'vi

Offline 'Oma Tirea

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3874
  • Karma: 50
  • Na'vi... sleru... rusti...
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2011, 04:00:49 am »
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

Fwana or futana? Peu?  :-\ Are those even possible?

-Txonä Rolyu

fwa-na, futa-na...  ulte srane they should be possible.

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2190
  • Karma: 23
  • Mowana tsamsiyu aean alu Tsyeyk <3
    • Facebook
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2011, 04:05:42 am »
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

Fwana or futana? Peu?  :-\ Are those even possible?

-Txonä Rolyu

fwa-na, futa-na...  ulte srane they should be possible.

I knew the constructions, I'm wondering about if adp's can be attached to pronouns.

-Txonä Rolyu




AvatarMeet was fantastic. Thanks to all who attended :D

Avatar Nation Karyu :D

Na'vi Kintrrä #70° :D

Keyeyluke ke tsun livu kea tìnusume

Oeri Uniltìrantokxìl txe'lanit nì'aw takeiuk nì'ul txa' fralo

Fpìl na Na'vi. Plltxe na Na'vi. Tìran na Na'vi. Kame na Na'vi

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Karma: 8
  • Lu oeru 'awa 'u a new pivlltxe-'ivong Na'vi!!!!
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 05:06:54 am »
I don't think this is possible. notice what you are saying: fì'u a na, fìut a na. you can't place na after this a unless you want to say "this thing which is like". for this you must say in my opinion "na fwa" and not take risks.
and this figure of speech is only used when the "thing" is a clause by itself. if you want to say just like this thing it's "fì'una" with no relative pronouns.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 800
  • Karma: 30
  • Key aronsrelngawnop. Key aswey.
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 10:12:06 am »
So let's conclude...

fwa = fì'u a

fì'una a = *funa
na fì'u a = (?) na fwa
fì'u a na = *fwana
fì'ut a na = *futana

these seem more possible.



edit: I think confusion causes is because of no * marked..
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 10:01:05 pm by Ikran Ahiyìk »
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Karma: 8
  • Lu oeru 'awa 'u a new pivlltxe-'ivong Na'vi!!!!
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 10:38:16 am »
as I said, there can't be such things as "fwana and "futana" (or "fulana", "furiana", tsawana,tsatana, tsalana, tsariana). there also isn't a construction like "funa". the right forms from yours are: fì'una a/na fì'u a/ na fwa-(something is) like this thing which...
                                                         fì'u/fì'ut/fì'ul/fì'uri a na-this thing which is like (something)...
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 800
  • Karma: 30
  • Key aronsrelngawnop. Key aswey.
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2011, 11:18:30 am »
You know I'm just trying to create some "false" forms, don't you?

Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

So let's conclude...

fwa = fì'u a

fì'una a = funa 1
na fì'u a = na fwa 2
fì'u a na = fwana 3
fì'ut a na = futana 4

these seem more possible.


Back to reality, we know 1, 3, 4 are wrong things, and doubt at 2, not even sure about ADP before this kind

(and these are off-topic stuff, we should stop now)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 11:25:15 am by Ikran Ahiyìk »
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Karma: 8
  • Lu oeru 'awa 'u a new pivlltxe-'ivong Na'vi!!!!
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2011, 11:27:48 am »
oh.. sorry.
about the second form, it's right.
and about the na poltxe thing, I don't think it is correct since na goes with nouns.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2190
  • Karma: 23
  • Mowana tsamsiyu aean alu Tsyeyk <3
    • Facebook
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2011, 02:29:53 am »
If it's not correct, I'd like to know why. It would make sense to me to say something like "Na poltxe oe srekrr......"

-Txonä Rolyu




AvatarMeet was fantastic. Thanks to all who attended :D

Avatar Nation Karyu :D

Na'vi Kintrrä #70° :D

Keyeyluke ke tsun livu kea tìnusume

Oeri Uniltìrantokxìl txe'lanit nì'aw takeiuk nì'ul txa' fralo

Fpìl na Na'vi. Plltxe na Na'vi. Tìran na Na'vi. Kame na Na'vi

Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 800
  • Karma: 30
  • Key aronsrelngawnop. Key aswey.
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2011, 02:57:47 am »
If it's not correct, I'd like to know why. It would make sense to me to say something like "Na poltxe oe srekrr......"

-Txonä Rolyu

oh.. sorry.
about the second form, it's right.
and about the na poltxe thing, I don't think it is correct since na goes with nouns.

Infix here, definately is a verb..

Na aylì'u a srekrr poltxe oe would make sense at this time,

and as this topic said we can't make *nìpawnlltxe ourselves (but I think this worth for an LEP submittion..)
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2190
  • Karma: 23
  • Mowana tsamsiyu aean alu Tsyeyk <3
    • Facebook
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2011, 03:25:08 am »
and as this topic said we can't make *nìpawnlltxe ourselves (but I think this worth for an LEP submittion..)

Fì'u! I think we should just submit the nì- <awn> construction as a valid construction.

-Txonä Rolyu




AvatarMeet was fantastic. Thanks to all who attended :D

Avatar Nation Karyu :D

Na'vi Kintrrä #70° :D

Keyeyluke ke tsun livu kea tìnusume

Oeri Uniltìrantokxìl txe'lanit nì'aw takeiuk nì'ul txa' fralo

Fpìl na Na'vi. Plltxe na Na'vi. Tìran na Na'vi. Kame na Na'vi

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Karma: 8
  • Lu oeru 'awa 'u a new pivlltxe-'ivong Na'vi!!!!
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2011, 04:07:40 am »
If it's not correct, I'd like to know why. It would make sense to me to say something like "Na poltxe oe srekrr......"

-Txonä Rolyu
ma Txonä Rolyu, na is an adposition and therefore goes with nouns only. that is why it's not correct to say "na poltxe".
your new sentence (in the quote above) is also wrong because of that. if you want it to be right you need fwa. "na fwa poltxe oe srekrr....."
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2190
  • Karma: 23
  • Mowana tsamsiyu aean alu Tsyeyk <3
    • Facebook
Re: regarding attaching nì- to participles
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2011, 05:39:36 am »
If it's not correct, I'd like to know why. It would make sense to me to say something like "Na poltxe oe srekrr......"

-Txonä Rolyu
ma Txonä Rolyu, na is an adposition and therefore goes with nouns only. that is why it's not correct to say "na poltxe".
your new sentence (in the quote above) is also wrong because of that. if you want it to be right you need fwa. "na fwa poltxe oe srekrr....."

*täpakuk* I should have known that by now. Irayo ma Tsamsiyu.

-Txonä Rolyu




AvatarMeet was fantastic. Thanks to all who attended :D

Avatar Nation Karyu :D

Na'vi Kintrrä #70° :D

Keyeyluke ke tsun livu kea tìnusume

Oeri Uniltìrantokxìl txe'lanit nì'aw takeiuk nì'ul txa' fralo

Fpìl na Na'vi. Plltxe na Na'vi. Tìran na Na'vi. Kame na Na'vi

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines | XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, LightStorm Entertainment or The Walt Disney Company.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi