regarding attaching nì- to participles

Kì'eyawn · March 24, 2011, 09:39:04 PM

Kaltxì frapoya,

A good number of us have developed the habit of attaching nì- to participles in order to make adverbs, based on the Frommerian word nìawnomum (nì-<awn>omum). So, for example, you might see a word *nìpawneng being used to mean "as told," or something to that effect. So, in my most recent conversation with Karyu Pawl, i asked how he felt about this.

Regarding whether nìawnomum is the basis for a productive way of using nì- with participles, the answer was an emphatic NO. He said, however, that the existence of nìawnomum opens the door to the possibility that there are other words in Na'vi that are constructed the same way (i.e., nì-V<awn>ERB), but these will need to be explicitly listed in the dictionary, and will not be common.

So, that means this construction is not at all productive, but nìawnomum might not be the only one of these we see.

Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì · March 25, 2011, 12:44:15 AM

Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

'Oma Tirea · March 25, 2011, 02:47:32 AM

Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 25, 2011, 12:44:15 AM
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì · March 25, 2011, 03:55:58 AM

Quote from: Inspirata on March 25, 2011, 02:47:32 AM
Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 25, 2011, 12:44:15 AM
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

Fwana or futana? Peu? $:-\$ Are those even possible?

-Txonä Rolyu

'Oma Tirea · March 25, 2011, 04:00:49 AM

Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 25, 2011, 03:55:58 AM
Quote from: Inspirata on March 25, 2011, 02:47:32 AM
Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 25, 2011, 12:44:15 AM
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

Fwana or futana? Peu? $:-\$ Are those even possible?

-Txonä Rolyu

fwa-na, futa-na... ulte srane they should be possible.

Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì · March 25, 2011, 04:05:42 AM

Quote from: Inspirata on March 25, 2011, 04:00:49 AM
Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 25, 2011, 03:55:58 AM
Quote from: Inspirata on March 25, 2011, 02:47:32 AM
Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 25, 2011, 12:44:15 AM
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

Fwana or futana? Peu? $:-\$ Are those even possible?

-Txonä Rolyu

fwa-na, futa-na... ulte srane they should be possible.

I knew the constructions, I'm wondering about if adp's can be attached to pronouns.

-Txonä Rolyu

Tswusayona Tsamsiyu · March 25, 2011, 05:06:54 AM

I don't think this is possible. notice what you are saying: fì'u a na, fìut a na. you can't place na after this a unless you want to say "this thing which is like". for this you must say in my opinion "na fwa" and not take risks.
and this figure of speech is only used when the "thing" is a clause by itself. if you want to say just like this thing it's "fì'una" with no relative pronouns.

Ikran Ahiyìk · March 25, 2011, 10:12:06 AM

So let's conclude...

fwa = fì'u a

fì'una a = *funa
na fì'u a = (?) na fwa
fì'u a na = *fwana
fì'ut a na = *futana

these seem more possible.

edit: I think confusion causes is because of no * marked..

Tswusayona Tsamsiyu · March 25, 2011, 10:38:16 AM

as I said, there can't be such things as "fwana and "futana" (or "fulana", "furiana", tsawana,tsatana, tsalana, tsariana). there also isn't a construction like "funa". the right forms from yours are: fì'una a/na fì'u a/ na fwa-(something is) like this thing which...
fì'u/fì'ut/fì'ul/fì'uri a na-this thing which is like (something)...

Ikran Ahiyìk · March 25, 2011, 11:18:30 AM

You know I'm just trying to create some "false" forms, don't you?

Quote from: Inspirata on March 25, 2011, 02:47:32 AM
Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 25, 2011, 12:44:15 AM
Hm, usually for stuff like "as told" or "as said" I use na and say "na poleng" and "na poltxe" (I use na poltxe a lot more) those wouldn't be incorrect would they?

-Txonä Rolyu

I have a feeling you're close...

Perhaps something like fwana..., futana... in formal Na'vi anyway....

Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on March 25, 2011, 10:12:06 AM
So let's conclude...

fwa = fì'u a

fì'una a = funa 1
na fì'u a = na fwa 2
fì'u a na = fwana 3
fì'ut a na = futana 4

these seem more possible.

Back to reality, we know 1, 3, 4 are wrong things, and doubt at 2, not even sure about ADP before this kind

(and these are off-topic stuff, we should stop now)

Tswusayona Tsamsiyu · March 25, 2011, 11:27:48 AM

oh.. sorry.
about the second form, it's right.
and about the na poltxe thing, I don't think it is correct since na goes with nouns.

Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì · March 26, 2011, 02:29:53 AM

If it's not correct, I'd like to know why. It would make sense to me to say something like "Na poltxe oe srekrr......"

-Txonä Rolyu

Ikran Ahiyìk · March 26, 2011, 02:57:47 AM

Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 26, 2011, 02:29:53 AM
If it's not correct, I'd like to know why. It would make sense to me to say something like "Na poltxe oe srekrr......"

-Txonä Rolyu

Quote from: Tswusayona Tsamsiyu on March 25, 2011, 11:27:48 AM
oh.. sorry.
about the second form, it's right.
and about the na poltxe thing, I don't think it is correct since na goes with nouns.

Infix here, definately is a verb..

Na aylì'u a srekrr poltxe oe would make sense at this time,

and as this topic said we can't make *nìpawnlltxe ourselves (but I think this worth for an LEP submittion..)

Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì · March 26, 2011, 03:25:08 AM

Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on March 26, 2011, 02:57:47 AM
and as this topic said we can't make *nìpawnlltxe ourselves (but I think this worth for an LEP submittion..)

Fì'u! I think we should just submit the nì- <awn> construction as a valid construction.

-Txonä Rolyu

Tswusayona Tsamsiyu · March 26, 2011, 04:07:40 AM

Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 26, 2011, 02:29:53 AM
If it's not correct, I'd like to know why. It would make sense to me to say something like "Na poltxe oe srekrr......"

-Txonä Rolyu

ma Txonä Rolyu, na is an adposition and therefore goes with nouns only. that is why it's not correct to say "na poltxe".
your new sentence (in the quote above) is also wrong because of that. if you want it to be right you need fwa. "na fwa poltxe oe srekrr....."

Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì · March 26, 2011, 05:39:36 AM

Quote from: Tswusayona Tsamsiyu on March 26, 2011, 04:07:40 AM
Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on March 26, 2011, 02:29:53 AM
If it's not correct, I'd like to know why. It would make sense to me to say something like "Na poltxe oe srekrr......"

-Txonä Rolyu
ma Txonä Rolyu, na is an adposition and therefore goes with nouns only. that is why it's not correct to say "na poltxe".
your new sentence (in the quote above) is also wrong because of that. if you want it to be right you need fwa. "na fwa poltxe oe srekrr....."

*täpakuk* I should have known that by now. Irayo ma Tsamsiyu.

-Txonä Rolyu