Author Topic: Sno with topical  (Read 578 times)

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Offline wm.annis

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Sno with topical
« on: November 27, 2020, 02:52:44 pm »
There was no reason to doubt this was possible, but after some searching I wasn't able to find an example to put in the Horen, so I asked Paul if sno could refer back to a topical which was clearly acting as a subject. I gave these examples:

Skxawngìri zìmup ulte sneyä tsko kxakx.
The idiot fell and broke his/her (own) bow.

Tawtuteri snohu perängkxo tengkrr terìran mì na'rìng.
The human was talking to himself while walking in the forest.

Quote from: Karyu Pawl
Those seem fine to me. No reason sno can't refer back to a previously mentioned NP, even if it's a topical.
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A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Sno with topical
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2020, 03:03:09 pm »
Both of those sentences seem like they could just not use any case suffix for the subject. Is there any reason that a topical would be preferable (or not?) in sentences like these? I've long wondered that.

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Sno with topical
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2020, 03:04:10 pm »
Oh, that is interesting. So this works because in the example sentences, the subject is omitted because it's identical to the topical, right? In other words, I'm assuming that in sentences like this one:

Skxawngìri, sa'nok zìmup ulte sneyä tsko kxakx.
As for that idiot, their mother fell and broke their bow.

... where the topical differs from the subject, sno still refers back to the grammatical subject (i.e., sa'nok)?
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Offline wm.annis

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Re: Sno with topical
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2020, 03:17:45 pm »
Both of those sentences seem like they could just not use any case suffix for the subject. Is there any reason why a topical would be preferable (or not?) in sentences like these? I've long wondered that.

A perennial question. In general, the more common use for the Na'vi topical seen so far is in fixed idioms and structures that prefer it (tsap'alute si, etc.). To a Japanese speaker, Na'vi is extremely parsimonious with its topical, rarely letting it out to play except for special occasions. Looking at recent larger texts from Paul on Naviteri, though, suggests it's getting a little more use beyond the purely idiomatic.

This sentences were set up for testing sno, and so are a bit artificial, to make a grammatical point. But my impulse in Na'vi is to use the topical for anything where I'm planning more than one clause to talk about it. I don't think that'd be incorrect. That said, the topical is one of those issues I'd love to corner Paul about for a few hours.  ;D
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline wm.annis

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Re: Sno with topical
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2020, 03:24:30 pm »
... where the topical differs from the subject, sno still refers back to the grammatical subject (i.e., sa'nok)?

I will ask.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Plumps

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Re: Sno with topical
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2020, 05:07:41 am »
Thank you for this confirmation.

 

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