Author Topic: Stop!  (Read 2363 times)

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Offline wm.annis

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Stop!
« on: February 02, 2011, 01:17:39 pm »
I asked Frommer what I had thought would be confirmation of a simple matter — can we use ftang stop with modal syntax, as we do with sngä'i.  This was the answer:

Quote from: K. Pawl
Well, that's an interesting question. I checked the dialog for the film and the video games, and in fact I didn't have any "stop V-ing" constructions. What I did have were examples of "stop N" (presumably, stopping the N's from V-ing, although that wasn't expressed). For "stop N," I had used a si- construction:

  ulte kawtu ke tsun ayoer tìftang sivi 'and no one can stop us'

  Txo ke tsiyevun oe tìftang sivi for . . .  'If I should not succeed in stopping them . . . '

So what to do for "stop V-ing"? Well, since sngä'i takes modal syntax for "begin to V" which is the same as "begin V-ing," I don't see why it shouldn't be the same for ftang. So yes, your surmise is correct.

...

The one thing you can't do with ftang is to use it transitively: So you can't say *Oel pot ftolang, but only Oe poru tìftang soli. Again, I think that's OK.

The question of how you would say, "I stop X from Ying" is not yet determined.
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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 01:37:47 pm »
Interesting.. but what about -eyk-? Oel pot fteykolang, I think it would work: I cause him to stop.
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 01:39:56 pm »
A new si construction … at least for me. The quoted lines are completly new to me.

Thanks for the information. :)


Offline wm.annis

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 01:41:42 pm »
Interesting.. but what about -eyk-? Oel pot fteykolang, I think it would work: I cause him to stop.

Something about that just doesn't smell quite right semantically.  It might be the correct way to handle it, but the existence of tìftang si complicates things.
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A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 02:18:31 pm »
Could we possibly have 2 correct ways of saying "I cause him to stop?"
Oel pot fteykang
and
Oe poru tìftang seyki

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2011, 02:44:01 pm »
This is rather interesting, as there are a lot of places where a transitive ftang would be the best choice. Maybe this is one of those places where Na`vi needs to different from other languages to make it, well, Na`vi.

So based on what K. Pawl wrote, would this be correct?

Nga ftang tivul set

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 05:21:30 am »
Could we possibly have 2 correct ways of saying "I cause him to stop?"
Oel pot fteykang
and
Oe poru tìftang seyki

I hope so. It's always good to have different ways to express the same idea. Otherwise the language becomes "too standard".

So based on what K. Pawl wrote, would this be correct?

Nga ftang tivul set

It would.
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Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 08:52:51 am »
Interesting!  Not something i would have expected, but interesting.
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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 02:44:05 pm »
A common little bit of grammar often helps in tying words together and making them esier to memorize. I now know for instance, that sngä`i and ftang mean 'start' and 'stop', and can both be used m<iv>odally.  :D

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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 06:54:44 pm »
Interesting!  Not something i would have expected, but interesting.

^^ Fì'u.  I was initially wondering what two different intransitive verbs for ftang would be needed for... until it hit me that ftang is modal while tìftang si isn't.

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

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Offline Nyx

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 07:44:38 pm »
Interesting. I like this :D

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 08:24:33 am »
Interesting!  Not something i would have expected, but interesting.

^^ Fì'u.  I was initially wondering what two different intransitive verbs for ftang would be needed for... until it hit me that ftang is modal while tìftang si isn't.

Now if we can just find out what tìhawnu si and sänume si are all about.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

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Offline Plumps

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 02:52:25 am »
Now if we can just find out what tìhawnu si and sänume si are all about.
As far as I remember the recordings from the workshop and this, at least tìhawnu si and hawnu are synonyms

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 11:02:39 pm »
Now if we can just find out what tìhawnu si and sänume si are all about.
As far as I remember the recordings from the workshop and this, at least tìhawnu si and hawnu are synonyms
Differences in transitivity is what they're about.

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Stop!
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2011, 06:23:33 am »
Now if we can just find out what tìhawnu si and sänume si are all about.
As far as I remember the recordings from the workshop and this, at least tìhawnu si and hawnu are synonyms
Differences in transitivity is what they're about.

Thank you  :P

I got that part; but now that we see the difference in usage between ftang and tìftang si—which goes beyond just the transitivity difference between the two—it makes me wonder if there are similar usage differences with these.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

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