Author Topic: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL  (Read 2820 times)

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Offline Prrton

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TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« on: February 01, 2010, 05:06:28 am »
Ta K. Pawl ne Prrton

Quote from: Paul Frommer
As for "because":

Talun [ta tsmukan Skyinou] is almost exactly one of the words I came up with! I had come up with taluna, from ta + lun (reason) + a, in keeping with the idea that the clause following "because" is modifying the head noun lun, so that "a" is required. But I can see that over time the final a could drop . . . so I'm happy to parenthesize it in the glossary: talun(a).

There's a related word oeyk (2 syllables, stress on the 2nd) meaning 'cause.' The corresponding conjunction is taweyka (with the obvious small sound changes). And in keeping with the above argument, I'll go with taweyk(a).

So it's talun(a) or taweyk(a), which are pretty much synonyms. Take your pick!

By the way, a related word is tafral, meaning 'therefore, because of that.' (The derivation is probably pretty clear.) It's an adverb, unlike talun(a) and taweyk(a), which are conjunctions.

Perfect analysis of sìlpey, comparing it to ralpeng. Yup, that's it! [(tìlaw ta Prrton)meaning that they inflect on the verbal stems pey and peng and not on sìl- or ral-.]

And speaking of Neytiri's and Jake's eveng . . . and holpxay ayzekwäyä feyä . . . that's one for JC to figure out. <g>

hol = few.

TAFRAL:

  - TALUN(a) = "from (the) reason" >>> "becuase" (conj.)
  - TAWEYK(a) = "based on (the) cause" >>> "because" (conj.)
  - LUN = "reason" (noun)
  - OEYK = "cause" (noun)
  - HOLPXAY = "number" (noun)
  - HOL = "few" (adj.)
  - TAFRAL = "therefore, because of that" (adverb)

Rutxe, Frapo, tsmukan SKYINOUr IRAYO si ko!!   ;D

Tewti, ko srak?

PS: From another mail: TXANTSAN = "excellent" (adj.), if you haven't seen it already.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 05:19:05 pm by Prrton »

Offline roger

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 06:15:48 am »
Thanks, Prrton!

Two questions: do we get atalun, ataweyk with the opposite clause order, or alunta, aweykta ?

Could oeyk be a derivation of eyk ?

Offline wm.annis

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2010, 09:51:56 am »
Two questions: do we get atalun, ataweyk with the opposite clause order, or alunta, aweykta ?

I would expect alunta (< a lun-ta) and aweykta (< a oeyk-ta), on the suspicion that we can't wedge an adposition between a noun and the attributive marker.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Txaslan

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2010, 10:49:03 am »
Every day something new! He's spoiling us!

Offline Plumps

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2010, 11:15:12 am »
I just hope he doesn't get in trouble because of that ;)

What I find interesting is that we can actually see that Karyu Frommer has a lot he hasn't thought about yet and for me it's quite thrilling to see how he makes up a new word for us... or considers what we think about certain constructions and meanings of words.
You just feel that he wants to help us... :)

Offline Mirri

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2010, 11:24:30 am »
You just feel that he wants to help us... :)

Of course he does, he's a teacher and over 3500 people signed the Free Na'vi petition.
When was the last time you had 3500 highly motivated students hanging on your every word? Tsa'u karyuyä unil lu ;)
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.

Offline Plumps

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2010, 11:31:01 am »
Of course he does, he's a teacher and over 3500 people signed the Free Na'vi petition.
When was the last time you had 3500 highly motivated students hanging on your every word? Tsa'u karyuyä unil lu ;)

I'm just saying ;) Not everyone would react in that way, I guess. Not everyone would answer to hundreds of mails .... which problably ask for more or less the same things over and over again. It very much speaks for him! Ayoeyä Karyu :)

Ah, what we need is some kind of diminutive affix ... something parents would call their children and vise versa as a sign of affection and respect :)

Offline AyekongAyauyä

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2010, 11:31:20 am »
I like that there are two forms of "because", one for objective cause and effect, and one for subjective intention. It makes me wonder, though: is there a corresponding objective "cause" version of "why" that's based on oeyk?

Offline Mirri

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 11:43:03 am »
Of course he does, he's a teacher and over 3500 people signed the Free Na'vi petition.
When was the last time you had 3500 highly motivated students hanging on your every word? Tsa'u karyuyä unil lu ;)

I'm just saying ;) Not everyone would react in that way, I guess. Not everyone would answer to hundreds of mails .... which problably ask for more or less the same things over and over again. It very much speaks for him! Ayoeyä Karyu :)

Ah, what we need is some kind of diminutive affix ... something parents would call their children and vise versa as a sign of affection and respect :)


Doesn't look like there's an affix that we know of yet, might not exist. But we've got the words for mommy, daddy, and kid, which are just cutified versions.
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.

Offline Plumps

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2010, 12:06:12 pm »
I like that there are two forms of "because", one for objective cause and effect, and one for subjective intention. It makes me wonder, though: is there a corresponding objective "cause" version of "why" that's based on oeyk?

Not that we know of so far.

Doesn't look like there's an affix that we know of yet, might not exist. But we've got the words for mommy, daddy, and kid, which are just cutified versions.

That's what I mean - there seem to be specific forms for these words. I was more aiming at an affix with which you could change every noun. Like there's a suffix -ín in Irish which makes teach (house) into teachaín (little house) or in German -lein and -chen which makes Kind (child, 'eveng) into Kindchen (little child, 'evi)

Offline Mirri

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2010, 12:11:12 pm »
I like that there are two forms of "because", one for objective cause and effect, and one for subjective intention. It makes me wonder, though: is there a corresponding objective "cause" version of "why" that's based on oeyk?

Not that we know of so far.

Doesn't look like there's an affix that we know of yet, might not exist. But we've got the words for mommy, daddy, and kid, which are just cutified versions.

That's what I mean - there seem to be specific forms for these words. I was more aiming at an affix with which you could change every noun. Like there's a suffix -ín in Irish which makes teach (house) into teachaín (little house) or in German -lein and -chen which makes Kind (child, 'eveng) into Kindchen (little child, 'evi)

Yes, but those affixes don't exist in a lot of other languages. So what you can do is like Na'vi is doing, which is cutify each individual word.
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.

Offline Plumps

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2010, 12:21:45 pm »
Yay, more to learn for us ;D

Nah, I get what you mean, Mirri - was just a wild idea that I had and thought would be cool if Na'vi had something like that.

Alright, back on topic...

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2010, 12:59:42 pm »
I like that there are two forms of "because", one for objective cause and effect, and one for subjective intention. It makes me wonder, though: is there a corresponding objective "cause" version of "why" that's based on oeyk?

Not that we know of so far.

Given the versatility of the derivational affixes, *peweyk or *oeykpe are likely to be understood, but whether they're to be found in the Frommerian vocabulary is another matter. ;)

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Prrton

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2010, 02:39:43 pm »
I like that there are two forms of "because", one for objective cause and effect, and one for subjective intention. It makes me wonder, though: is there a corresponding objective "cause" version of "why" that's based on oeyk?

Not that we know of so far.

Doesn't look like there's an affix that we know of yet, might not exist. But we've got the words for mommy, daddy, and kid, which are just cutified versions.

That's what I mean - there seem to be specific forms for these words. I was more aiming at an affix with which you could change every noun. Like there's a suffix -ín in Irish which makes teach (house) into teachaín (little house) or in German -lein and -chen which makes Kind (child, 'eveng) into Kindchen (little child, 'evi)

Yes, but those affixes don't exist in a lot of other languages. So what you can do is like Na'vi is doing, which is cutify each individual word.

  Rutxe tìng nari ne fìkìng

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Offline Erimeyz

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2010, 05:23:43 pm »
Added to the Canon by wm.annis: http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=Canon#Some_Conjunctions_and_Adverbs

Prrton, thanks for sharing this!  Wm, thanks for documenting it!

  - Eri

Offline roger

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Re: TALUN • TAWEYK • TAFRAL • LUN • OEYK • HOLPXAY • HOL
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2010, 08:50:38 pm »
Two questions: do we get atalun, ataweyk with the opposite clause order, or alunta, aweykta ?

I would expect alunta (< a lun-ta) and aweykta (< a oeyk-ta), on the suspicion that we can't wedge an adposition between a noun and the attributive marker.
The first of these is confirmed. I posted on the dictionary thread.

 

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