Author Topic: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG  (Read 3037 times)

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Offline Kä'eng

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The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« on: August 02, 2010, 02:47:02 pm »
As we know, Frommer translated the lyrics for four Na'vi songs, of which two (the Weaving Song and the Hunting Song) were given in the ASG. I found the other two at http://www.pandorapedia.com/ritual_music; I don't think they've been mentioned anywhere on LN.org yet.

Tree Song (Funeral Song)
We are all seeds
Of the Great Tree,
Whose strength is in our legs
Like the mighty trunks,
In our arms
As sheltering branches,
In our eyes
The blue-flower
Which unfolds to the sun.
We are all seeds
Of the Great Tree
Whose song is within us.
Utralä (a)Nawm
ayrina’l(u) ayoeng,
A peyä tìtxur mì hinam awngeyä
N(a) aysangek afkeu,
Mì pun
N(a) ayvul ahusawnu,
M(ì) aynar
Na seze
A ’ong ne tsawke.
Utralä (a)Nawm
ayrina’ l(u) ayoeng,
A peyä tìrol m(ì) awnga.
Spiral Song
Music creates patterns
In the silence of the mind
As weavers do
In the physical world.
Pamtseol ngop ayrenut
Mì ronsemä tìfnu
Tengfya ngop säftxuyul
Mì hifkey.
Chorus:
We sing to See
We See to sing
We sing our way
Down the eight paths
To the center.
Awnga rol fte kivame
Kame fte rivol
Rerol tengkr kerä
Ìlä fya’o avol
Ne kxamtseng.
The songs bind the thirteen spirals
Of the solid world
To the eight spirit paths
Like the threads of aSongcord.
Aywayl yìm kifkeyä
’Ìheyut avomrr
Sìn tireafya’o avol
Na waytelemä hìng.
Chorus repeated

The latter song has our first attested usage of the adposition sìn. Also, many people have assumed that the definition of waytelem as "songcord" was a mistake and should actually be "songchord"; this gives some evidence to the contrary.
Ma evi, ke'u ke lu prrte' to fwa sim tuteot ayawne.
Slä txo tuteo fmi 'ivampi ngat ro seng, fu nìfya'o, a 'eykefu ngati vä', tsakem ke lu sìltsan.
Tsaw lu ngeyä tokx! Kawtu ke tsun nìmuiä 'ivampi ngat txo ngal ke new tsakemit.
Ha kempe si nga? Nì'awve, nga plltxe san kehe. Tsakrr, ngal tsatsengti hum!

Offline Muzer

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 02:55:28 pm »
The first one was in the film! And at the end of Jake's First Flight!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 03:02:11 pm by Muzer »
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[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Offline wm.annis

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 07:05:08 pm »
Also our first sighting if ìlä.

The third line of the chorus for the Spiral Song has a typo (in the Pandorapedia article): tengkrr, not *tengkr.

This use of tengfya answers some questions, too.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 09:46:34 pm »
Wow, great find!

Offline Tsamsiyu Atsteu

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 09:53:23 pm »
excellent!
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Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2010, 10:04:51 pm »
The first one was in the film! And at the end of Jake's First Flight!
Wait, I don't hear it in Jake's first flight, what section of the lyrics are in there?

Do you mean in the funeral chant? Cause that's where it is (aptly named song).
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 10:09:48 pm by Ftiafpi »

Offline Taronyu

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2010, 10:26:01 pm »
Awesome find. Annis, I expect a new song PDF and a breakdown of new constructions. :P

Offline Plumps

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 12:56:47 am »
Yes, excellent find – from the first appearance in the film, I was fascinated by the funeral chant and always wondered what it meant

The first one was in the film! And at the end of Jake's First Flight!
Wait, I don't hear it in Jake's first flight, what section of the lyrics are in there?

Do you mean in the funeral chant? Cause that's where it is (aptly named song).

At 3'45 of Jake’s First Flight you can here the lines:
    Utralä (a)Nawm
    ayrina’ l(u) ayoeng, (2x)
    A peyä tìtxur mì hinam awngeyä (+ nìayoeng)

Also interesting the old spelling of fkew, an early appearance of the participle ‹us› (interesting how it was there all the time, from kerusey onward and we didn’t notice it), and a shortened form of nari which I tend to hear in Tsu’tey’s line of poru tìng nar(i) when Jake is having his pa’li training.

In the Spiral Song an old one-letter-ergative form after a diphthong (aywayl, now: aywayìl)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 01:08:34 am by Plumps »

Offline Nyx

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 09:23:40 am »
Awesome ;D

Offline wm.annis

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 06:08:07 pm »
This is a nice piece of grammar:

  Pamtseol ngop ayrenut / Mì ronsemä tìfnu / Tengfya ngop säftxuyul / Mì hifkey.

Here we have a transitive verb with no overt direct object but the subject is still agentive/ergative.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Plumps

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 01:35:45 am »
Now I know what you meant in your NotW post about the unclarity of transitivity…
So much we still don’t understand…

But could have to do with what K. Pawl said to your Coyote story, that the object is presumed and therefor the eragtive is marked?

Tsamsiyu92

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 04:09:18 pm »
This is a nice piece of grammar:

  Pamtseol ngop ayrenut / Mì ronsemä tìfnu / Tengfya ngop säftxuyul / Mì hifkey.

Here we have a transitive verb with no overt direct object but the subject is still agentive/ergative.
Doesn't the verb ngop in the last sentence have "ayrenu-t" as an omited direct object, which could have been omited due to being used in the last sentence?

like:
Musicians create patterns, like weavers do (create patterns).

...or am I completely wrong?

Offline Kä'eng

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2010, 05:59:43 pm »
I just noticed something else from this: if a short plural is after an ADP+, it does not get lenited a second time, even if it still starts with a lenitable consonant. mì pun (where pun is the plural of pxun) didn't become *mì fun.
Ma evi, ke'u ke lu prrte' to fwa sim tuteot ayawne.
Slä txo tuteo fmi 'ivampi ngat ro seng, fu nìfya'o, a 'eykefu ngati vä', tsakem ke lu sìltsan.
Tsaw lu ngeyä tokx! Kawtu ke tsun nìmuiä 'ivampi ngat txo ngal ke new tsakemit.
Ha kempe si nga? Nì'awve, nga plltxe san kehe. Tsakrr, ngal tsatsengti hum!

Tsamsiyu92

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2010, 03:17:14 am »
I just noticed something else from this: if a short plural is after an ADP+, it does not get lenited a second time, even if it still starts with a lenitable consonant. mì pun (where pun is the plural of pxun) didn't become *mì fun.
Frommer has also stated (i think) that plurals after ADP+ have to be marked with ay+, but it remains at the first lentition.

Offline Plumps

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2010, 03:30:57 am »
Frommer has also stated (i think) that plurals after ADP+ have to be marked with ay+, but it remains at the first lentition.

You don’t have to. He said in his blog-post on ambiguity:

Quote from: K. Pawl, 1 July
…the context will often make the meaning clear.

and

Quote from: K. Pawl, cont'd
If there is the potential for misunderstanding and the plural is intended, the full plural form is used. The lenited form without ay- is interpreted by default as singular.

The point here being if and potential for misunderstanding ;)

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2010, 04:19:05 pm »
(Sorry i'm a little late; been out of town)

This is a great find!  I'm (only very mildly) peeved that i was working on a piece i was calling "Spiral Song," which i suppose i'll have to re-name...  But seriously, this is all great stuff =)
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline roger

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2010, 07:02:24 am »
"in our arms/eyes/etc" is plural. I'd expect dual.

Offline Plumps

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2010, 08:54:36 am »
"in our arms/eyes/etc" is plural. I'd expect dual.

If you expect the song being sung by the whole tribe there’s definitely more than just two of the pairs :P

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2010, 12:46:18 pm »
"in our arms/eyes/etc" is plural. I'd expect dual.

If you expect the song being sung by the whole tribe there’s definitely more than just two of the pairs :P
Huh, that's an interesting point.

Offline Sezetirea216

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Re: The two songs that didn't make it into the ASG
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2011, 02:57:04 pm »
Does anyone know what their saying in "scorched earth"? ???
Oe mäkxu ma nikre ne'ìm ulte kulat

 

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