Txe'lanit Hivawl...

[Kemaweyan]

Srane.. Pam lu san Tx sìk, pelun fìtsenge lu san T sìk? 

[kewnya txamew'itan]

not everyone knows how to make it...

How do you?

I'm on a French CSA keyboard so I can just type alt_gr + ;

Doesn't work on my UK keyboard, other than vowels (which get an acute accent), the only keys that have characters made with alt gr are ` which goes to ¦ and 4 which goes to €.

I don't know how to do it on a English UK configuration. The only thing I can suggest you is to try every single key match you can using the right alt, right control and shift. There is also a good chance that this key is simply not on your keyboard...

Shift only does capitals and control doesn't give extra characters. It's a real pain. I guess I'm going to have to try and find the alt code.

[Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan]

not everyone knows how to make it...

How do you?

I'm on a French CSA keyboard so I can just type alt_gr + ;

Doesn't work on my UK keyboard, other than vowels (which get an acute accent), the only keys that have characters made with alt gr are ` which goes to ¦ and 4 which goes to €.

I don't know how to do it on a English UK configuration. The only thing I can suggest you is to try every single key match you can using the right alt, right control and shift. There is also a good chance that this key is simply not on your keyboard...

Shift only does capitals and control doesn't give extra characters. It's a real pain. I guess I'm going to have to try and find the alt code.

Or just do like me and use 0- instead like I always did in the past. It's clear, fast, efficient and universal. No confusion, no mess...

[kewnya txamew'itan]

But that goes against the canon. You can do it if you like, but canonically it's no different from using tsahaylu (or for that matter shahaylu), neu, fkeu, kelutrel etc.

Ok, I've found the alt-code, it's 248, so now we have ì = 141, ä = 132 and ° = 248.

[Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan]

But that goes against the canon. You can do it if you like, but canonically it's no different from using tsahaylu (or for that matter shahaylu), neu, fkeu, kelutrel etc.

Ok, I've found the alt-code, it's 248, so now we have ì = 141, ä = 132 and ° = 248.

Canon does not necessarily means that it should be followed mindlessly. That's like saying that we can't use roman numbers instead of arabic ones in english if we want to just because it's not canon. I'm just thinking about the others before putting what Frommer says as god words... Right now, there is no valid reason to use this character to express numbers aside from the fact that Frommer said that it should be the way. My decision is not personally influenced by anything as I know how to to write those characters. My keyboard layout keep them close to me which is not the case for 90% of those who want to learn.

I don't want to sounds rash or anything but my opinion is that, right now, one of the reasons why there is such a small amount of people interested is the fact that you need to be a computer-savvy just to be able to use the language. You need to know about IRC, Skype, TeamSpeak, keyboard layouts and various other stuff. Most people don't even know that the two alt keys on their keyboard are different. If you force people to install software or need to explain them how to write unusual symbols, you're limiting the number of people that can learn it.

I think that Na'vi is a wonderful language and that this last update is a very good source of information but I also think that the way the writing system is taking is horrible and that part of it needs to be changed before it is too late.

[Prrton]

Srane.. Pam lu san Tx sìk, pelun fìtsenge lu san T sìk? 

M@ Kemaweyan, M@ Plumps! Irayo.

Tsar tìkxey larmängu. Set leykolatem fte slilvu eyawar na san Tx sìk.

Mengaru seiyi irayo nìmun.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Wou! Wou! Wou! Irayo nìtxan Karyu Pawl sì Prrton! Oe lu {busy} fi`u txon.

The Pandoran time discussion was most interesting!

As far as marking numbers, the use of ° is a bit interesting. Its also OK for language shorthand because this is language we are discussing, and not computer science. But for identifying octal numbers, I was taught long ago that the prefix is 0o. This is a lot clearer than just 0, which can be confused for an empty place holder. I will have to find where ° is hiding on my Linux keyboard, or just add the code somewhere.

As far as numbered nouns beiung in the singular, this is common in other languages/cultures. For instance, if I was out on a game drive in East Africa, I would tell someone 'Today, we saw 8 lion, 4 giraffe, 12 gazelle and a cheetah', not 'Today, we saw 8 lions, 4 giraffes, 12 gazelles and a cheetah'

Lots of good material here to learn, along with some sentence construction tips (to confuse me even more!)

I'm glad K.Pawl told the story of how Wou came to be. Otherwise, it sounded too much like a loanword. Now, we know it is in fact, a loanword. This is a word I will use a lot!

[Tirea Aean]

OR

you can be like ME and despise ALL digital numbers...be a Na'vi and write out the numbers...think about it. they dont write. why would we need this? they would just say the number. i mean we dont say(*IN COMMON SPEECH) two-one to mean twenty-one. meaning, we dont say "21" we say"twenty-one."

Mevolaw, not 21. and by the way, this is NOT twenty one. this is just bloody confusing to people.(that have not looked at octal in their life aka people who are not in the computer field of occupation or schooling...)

thats why I type out the Na'vi number word. so much easier to understand imo.

also, if you are gonna do waht Meuia is saying I suggest o21 instead of 021 for mevolaw.

I see how the degree symbol is good...but as posted on this page, it is not the easiest thing to type. its ridiculous enough to get new people to type ä and ì. and not to mention that I also despise alt codes...A LOT.

just my half a cent on this.

[Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan]

Well... I guess that's what I'm going to do now. At least, it have the good point of forcing you to learn the numbers

[Tirea Aean]

hahaha. well, I might as well update my custom Tirea Na'vi Windows keyboard layout to have a degree symbol...just in case. that way, i dont have to worry about it. I like the idea of "ONE KEY, ONE CHARACTER" or in some cases on my custom kb, one key, two characters...

EDIT: I have made a windows custom keyboard layout and put a link to it in the kxwerty picture in my signature. if you download and install it,

it will look like this:

SHIFT:

~ ! @ # $ % ^ & * ( ) _ +
Kx W E R T Y U I O P { } |
A S Tx F Ng H Ì K L : "
Z Ä Ts V Px N M < > ?

normal:

º 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - =
kx w e r t y u i o p [ ] \
a s tx f ng h ì k l ; '
z ä ts v px n m , . /

download, unzip, and install setup.exe. done. now you can type Na'vi fast. switch back to your normal layout with left ctrl+shift.

EDIT: now going international. The zip contains EN, DE, and PL

[Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan]

normal:
º 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11 0 - =

I would keep 8 and 9 as they can be used to expressed phone numbers and such (that's why the Na'vi have 'eyt and nayn now too  )

[Rain]

Concerning all the fuss about the tiny ⁰, It's easily solved with the Superscript button directly above the  face. MS Word has one too.

[Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan]

Concerning all the fuss about the tiny ⁰, It's easily solved with the Superscript button directly above the  face. MS Word has one too.

That's like saying using í instead of ì which is wrong

[Rain]

It is? Uh-oh, I may have messed up.

[wm.annis]

It is? Uh-oh, I may have messed up.

Non-English languages have long had to cope with oddities in ASCII.  This is nothing new to Na'vi.  I think superscript 0 is just fine for informal, forum work.  For formal documents, though, it behooves us to take more care with these little formalities.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Looking at all the terms we have now to describe evening, I wonder if the following correlation is intentional or not.

There are actually three classifications for 'twilight', the time between sundown and when it is truly dark. Intentional or not, it looks like there is a corresponding term for all three:

Civil twilight-- when it is still light enough to work outside-- sreton`ong
Nautical twilight-- when there is still enough light to navigate by-- txon`ong
Astronomical twilight-- when stars begin to be visible, but its not quite dark-- txon`ongmaw

As an amateur astronomer, I will definitely use these!

[Kì'eyawn]

Looking at all the terms we have now to describe evening, I wonder if the following correlation is intentional or not.

There are actually three classifications for 'twilight', the time between sundown and when it is truly dark. Intentional or not, it looks like there is a corresponding term for all three:

Civil twilight-- when it is still light enough to work outside-- sreton`ong
Nautical twilight-- when there is still enough light to navigate by-- txon`ong
Astronomical twilight-- when stars begin to be visible, but its not quite dark-- txon`ongmaw

As an amateur astronomer, I will definitely use these!

That's cool.  I wasn't familiar with those terms; i'll have to, well, familiarize myself with them =)

[Prrton]

OR

you can be like ME and despise ALL digital numbers...be a Na'vi and write out the numbers...think about it. they dont write. why would we need this? they would just say the number. i mean we dont say(*IN COMMON SPEECH) two-one to mean twenty-one. meaning, we dont say "21" we say"twenty-one."

Mevolaw, not 21. and by the way, this is NOT twenty one. this is just bloody confusing to people.(that have not looked at octal in their life aka people who are not in the computer field of occupation or schooling...)

thats why I type out the Na'vi number word. so much easier to understand imo.

also, if you are gonna do waht Meuia is saying I suggest o21 instead of 021 for mevolaw.

I see how the degree symbol is good...but as posted on this page, it is not the easiest thing to type. its ridiculous enough to get new people to type ä and ì. and not to mention that I also despise alt codes...A LOT.

just my half a cent on this.

I completely agree that it is best practice to always say (and likely WRITE) the numbers out. If I did this myself, I wouldn't have to look them up all the time... 

Please do not think that it is ever REQUIRED to use numerals to notate the numbers.

This convention is only intended to give a visual cue that the numbers at hand (above 7) do not have the same/full value as decimal numbers. If you are promising (in writing) to Skype with someone at 13:00 and it is unmarked, is that 11:00 AM or 1:00 PM? It's pretty ambiguous.

Oel fpìl futa nìtrrtrr 0o, o, ^o, hu º (a lu san eyawr sìk) tsun tivam nì'eng* nìwotx.* Slä lam oer fwa san 017 sìk kop tsun lu oeyk a tuteo ke tslam nìlaw nìftue.* Nìteng, nìNa'vi tsakrr a holpxay eyk ke lu teng na fwa holpxay nong.*

º100vea tute	/  tute a100ºve   ««« Menariri oeyä fìfya lu laro sì ftue fte nivìn frato.*
0o100vea tute	/  tute a0o100ve
o100vea tute	/  tute a100ove
0100vea tute	/  tute a0100ve

Tì'efumi oeyä, tsatìkan a tsranten frato zene livu fwa fko frakrr tsun tslivam nìlaw nìwotx ralit a tsat fko fmeri pivlltxe.*

[Tirea Aean]

OR

you can be like ME and despise ALL digital numbers...be a Na'vi and write out the numbers...think about it. they dont write. why would we need this? they would just say the number. i mean we dont say(*IN COMMON SPEECH) two-one to mean twenty-one. meaning, we dont say "21" we say"twenty-one."

Mevolaw, not 21. and by the way, this is NOT twenty one. this is just bloody confusing to people.(that have not looked at octal in their life aka people who are not in the computer field of occupation or schooling...)

thats why I type out the Na'vi number word. so much easier to understand imo.

also, if you are gonna do waht Meuia is saying I suggest o21 instead of 021 for mevolaw.

I see how the degree symbol is good...but as posted on this page, it is not the easiest thing to type. its ridiculous enough to get new people to type ä and ì. and not to mention that I also despise alt codes...A LOT.

just my half a cent on this.

I completely agree that it is best practice to always say (and likely WRITE) the numbers out. If I did this myself, I wouldn't have to look them up all the time... 

Please do not think that it is ever REQUIRED to use numerals to notate the numbers.

This convention is only intended to give a visual cue that the numbers at hand (above 7) do not have the same/full value as decimal numbers. If you are promising (in writing) to Skype with someone at 13:00 and it is unmarked, is that 11:00 AM or 1:00 PM? It's pretty ambiguous.

Oel fpìl futa nìtrrtrr 0o, o, ^o, hu º (a lu san eyawr sìk) tsun tivam nì'eng* nìwotx.* Slä lam oer fwa san 017 sìk kop tsun lu oeyk a tuteo ke tslam nìlaw nìftue.* Nìteng, nìNa'vi tsakrr a holpxay eyk ke lu teng na fwa holpxay nong.*

º100vea tute	/  tute a100ºve   ««« Menariri oeyä fìfya lu laro sì ftue fte nivìn frato.*
0o100vea tute	/  tute a0o100ve
o100vea tute	/  tute a100ove
0100vea tute	/  tute a0100ve

Tì'efumi oeyä, tsatìkan a tsranten frato zene livu fwa fko frakrr tsun tslivam nìlaw nìwotx ralit a tsat fko fmeri pivlltxe.*

Tsari ngahu mllte oe.

['eylan na'viyä]

i think there is also a little difference in meaning between the canonical Notation for Na'vi : "°" and a general ocatal Notation "0" or "0o".

In  my opinion "100" is always "0o144" or "0144" but can be either "°144" or "°140" depending on how accurate/important the accuracy of "100" was. I think 0o.. and 0... are only the octal versions of the same same human-context-number whereas °... is only the shortened version of the spoken number. Imoh °144 should be only °144 when it is really used and spoken as zamtsìvosìng in its context.