Author Topic: <äpeyk> in transitive constructions  (Read 96 times)

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Offline Vawmataw

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<äpeyk> in transitive constructions
« on: August 20, 2021, 08:53:42 am »
Prompted by a discussion on the Kelutral discord, I asked Karyu Pawl how äpeyk would work if we added a direct object (for example: I cause myself to hunt yerik). Here's his answer:

Quote
The simplest and most consistent rule for verbs containing <äpeyk> is that sometimes <äp> dominates and sometimes <eyk> dominates:

  • If the original construction is intransitive, <äp> dominates, and the doer is in the subjective case.
  • If the original construction is transitive, <eyk> dominates, and the doer is in the agentive case.

For example:

I cause myself to hunt: Oe täpeykaron.
Here the original construction is intransitive, i.e., Oe taron. So the doer is oe, not oel.

I cause myself to hunt yerik: Oel täpeykaron yerikit.
Here the original construction is transitive, i.e., Oel taron yerikit. So the doer is oel, not oe.

I like the parallel here:

Oe taron.                      ~                    Oel taron yerikit.
Oe täpeykaron.            ~                     Oel täpeykaron yerikit.

Neytiri’s explanation for the proposed *Oe täpeykaron yerikit was actually quite persuasive. I definitely see how the intervention of modal verbs, which require the subjective, not agentive, case for the doer, might lead to a similar construction with transitive causatives. In the end, though, I just couldn’t get myself to accept a SUBJECTIVE + SINGLE VERB + PATIENTIVE construction, even though we’re all used to SUBJECTIVE + MODAL + <iv>VERB + PATIENTIVE.

Hope this all proves to be consistent and workable. 
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Offline Wllìm

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Re: <äpeyk> in transitive constructions
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2021, 09:02:57 am »
Txantsan! Good to have confirmation. I think that this is consistent with what we've known before, but I do need to think about the topic some more, because <eyk> always confuses me ;D

In the end, though, I just couldn’t get myself to accept a SUBJECTIVE + SINGLE VERB + PATIENTIVE construction, even though we’re all used to SUBJECTIVE + MODAL + <iv>VERB + PATIENTIVE.

I'd still prefer if it would have been *oel new tivaron ioangit (i.e. the dependent verb dominates) but I'm indeed kind of used to it by now :P
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Offline Toliman

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Re: <äpeyk> in transitive constructions
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2021, 10:02:11 am »
Eltur tìtxen si, irayo for sharing!

 

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