<äpeyk> in transitive constructions

Started by Vawmataw, August 20, 2021, 08:53:42 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Vawmataw

Prompted by a discussion on the Kelutral discord, I asked Karyu Pawl how äpeyk would work if we added a direct object (for example: I cause myself to hunt yerik). Here's his answer:

QuoteThe simplest and most consistent rule for verbs containing <äpeyk> is that sometimes <äp> dominates and sometimes <eyk> dominates:


  • If the original construction is intransitive, <äp> dominates, and the doer is in the subjective case.
  • If the original construction is transitive, <eyk> dominates, and the doer is in the agentive case.

For example:

I cause myself to hunt: Oe täpeykaron.
Here the original construction is intransitive, i.e., Oe taron. So the doer is oe, not oel.

I cause myself to hunt yerik: Oel täpeykaron yerikit.
Here the original construction is transitive, i.e., Oel taron yerikit. So the doer is oel, not oe.

I like the parallel here:

Oe taron.                      ~                    Oel taron yerikit.
Oe täpeykaron.            ~                     Oel täpeykaron yerikit.

Neytiri's explanation for the proposed *Oe täpeykaron yerikit was actually quite persuasive. I definitely see how the intervention of modal verbs, which require the subjective, not agentive, case for the doer, might lead to a similar construction with transitive causatives. In the end, though, I just couldn't get myself to accept a SUBJECTIVE + SINGLE VERB + PATIENTIVE construction, even though we're all used to SUBJECTIVE + MODAL + <iv>VERB + PATIENTIVE.

Hope this all proves to be consistent and workable. 
Fmawn Ta 'Rrta - News IN NA'VI ONLY (Discord)
Traducteur francophone de Kelutral.org, dict-navi et Reykunyu

Wllìm

Txantsan! Good to have confirmation. I think that this is consistent with what we've known before, but I do need to think about the topic some more, because <eyk> always confuses me ;D

Quote from: Vawmataw on August 20, 2021, 08:53:42 AM
In the end, though, I just couldn't get myself to accept a SUBJECTIVE + SINGLE VERB + PATIENTIVE construction, even though we're all used to SUBJECTIVE + MODAL + <iv>VERB + PATIENTIVE.

I'd still prefer if it would have been *oel new tivaron ioangit (i.e. the dependent verb dominates) but I'm indeed kind of used to it by now :P

Toliman