100 days of Na'vi

Started by Tekre, July 13, 2022, 01:25:11 PM

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Tekre

The questions "where should I start?", "How can I learn the language?" and "How to continue?" are among the most asked ones, so I tried to create something to solve that problem and help those learners who feel that they need some more guidance.

"100 days of Na'vi" is a 100 days challenge that gives you something to do with the language every day for (who could have guessed) 100 days. It starts at the very beginning, but without teaching - instead, learners are guided towards resource collections and communities in order to research themself. It is no textbook, it only gives you a possible path you can use on your learning journey. During the 100 days, all core grammar topics are addressed, learners get a lot of different opportunities to practice those grammar topics as well as writing, listening and speaking, and also a lot of vocab days give them an idea of in which order they could learn words.

You can find it on my website: https://languagechaos.com/Na'vi/days/

(Currently only 40 days are online, the next 60 follow in the next few days)

Toruk Makto

Just took a look and this is an interesting initiative. A little heavy on pointing to resources outside of LearnNavi, but interesting all the same.

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Toliman

That looks really interesting :)

Tekre

#3
Quote from: Toruk Makto on July 13, 2022, 03:54:10 PM
Just took a look and this is an interesting initiative. A little heavy on pointing to resources outside of LearnNavi, but interesting all the same.

I mean, it itself is not a Learn Na'vi resource so I see no obligation to focus on LN resources. It links the resource overviews of both, Kelutral and Learn Na'vi, it links both Discord servers and for within the discord servers I can only show stuff from Kelutral as I am only in that server hrh As for direct resources links I used the ones I personally prefer, for example I personally think the annotated dictionary is the best choice for finding out how words are used in context and since it is included in Reykunyu I also linked that as a dictionary (but also presented dict-na'vi as a alternative), so i don't look at from which person something comes/rank "community projects" (resources that for example come directly from Learn Na'vi/Kelutral) higher because that would be nonsense in my opinion. When I see I forgot something I always add it (for example I added tsyili's sentence-building Adventures as a recommendation for grammar resources because it is one of my favorites, no idea why I forgot about it, but with the next update of the website it will be there too), so if you feel I missed something very important feel free to tell me what - but more links come on later days, as I introduce new things step by step, for example are both, Wllìm's stress game and Tirea's wordle linked in later chapters to show more opportunities to practice  :)
(But it is kind of strange that you complain about an independent resource having too many non-LN links, while the LN discord mods delete links to Kelutral resources because they are "Ads", so by that logic I should only have links to the stuff from my own website in the 100 days to avoid having evil ads that could even help learners hrh)

Tekre


Wllìm

Quote from: Toruk Makto on July 13, 2022, 03:54:10 PM
A little heavy on pointing to resources outside of LearnNavi, but interesting all the same.
Kaltxì ma Markì, is it official LN policy that any links to non-LN resources are discouraged or that projects not hosted by LN are seen as less useful than projects hosted by LN? This would be useful for me to know, because then I should stop recommending Learn Na'vi as a useful and constructive resource for learners. Irayo!

Toruk Makto

Quote from: Tekre on July 14, 2022, 03:41:46 AM
I mean, it itself is not a Learn Na'vi resource so I see no obligation to focus on LN resources. It links the resource overviews of both, Kelutral and Learn Na'vi, it links both Discord servers and for within the discord servers I can only show stuff from Kelutral as I am only in that server hrh As for direct resources links I used the ones I personally prefer, for example I personally think the annotated dictionary is the best choice for finding out how words are used in context and since it is included in Reykunyu I also linked that as a dictionary (but also presented dict-na'vi as a alternative), so i don't look at from which person something comes/rank "community projects" (resources that for example come directly from Learn Na'vi/Kelutral) higher because that would be nonsense in my opinion. When I see I forgot something I always add it (for example I added tsyili's sentence-building Adventures as a recommendation for grammar resources because it is one of my favorites, no idea why I forgot about it, but with the next update of the website it will be there too), so if you feel I missed something very important feel free to tell me what - but more links come on later days, as I introduce new things step by step, for example are both, Wllìm's stress game and Tirea's wordle linked in later chapters to show more opportunities to practice  :)
(But it is kind of strange that you complain about an independent resource having too many non-LN links, while the LN discord mods delete links to Kelutral resources because they are "Ads", so by that logic I should only have links to the stuff from my own website in the 100 days to avoid having evil ads that could even help learners hrh)

Got it. As I said, it looks like a great project. If there's any way any of us in the LearnNavi community can assist, please don't hesitate to ask at any time. We're happy to help. Irayo!

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Tekre

Thanks! Just let me know if you find any mistakes in there (there are probably plenty of them especially in the English texts hrh) so I can correct them :)

tsyili

If anyone has feedback, questions, or concerns for the LN Discord staff and happenings within that server, they should bring it up to LN Discord staff to be addressed.

Speaking for myself as a teacher, I will not recommend or use materials that do not meet a standard of quality and accuracy I am comfortable with. It has nothing to do with where it comes from, and everything to do with that. It's nothing personal. :)

That being said, I notice that Fwew is missing from this resource and is rarely, if ever, recommended by anyone outside LN. My guide was omitted entirely for two years, then initially placed in the wrong category (and still isn't recommended), so I will say that my experience does not align with yours and leave it there.

Wllìm

#9
Quote from: tsyili on July 16, 2022, 08:14:42 PM
If anyone has feedback, questions, or concerns for the LN Discord staff and happenings within that server, they should bring it up to LN Discord staff to be addressed.

I've seen several admin decisions on the LN Discord that I disagreed with. However, as you know, the LN Discord rules forbid arguing about mod decisions, so I decided against bringing these things up.

Quote from: tsyili on July 16, 2022, 08:14:42 PMSpeaking for myself as a teacher, I will not recommend or use materials that do not meet a standard of quality and accuracy I am comfortable with. It has nothing to do with where it comes from, and everything to do with that. It's nothing personal. :)

Of course that's totally fair, teachers can decide for themselves what materials they want to use. No one would argue that you have to use materials you don't like when teaching. No one also would argue that Tekre has to include other materials she doesn't like in her teaching... oh wait, that is literally what the comment above was about.

Quote from: tsyili on July 16, 2022, 08:14:42 PMThat being said, I notice that Fwew is missing from this resource and is rarely, if ever, recommended by anyone outside LN. My guide was omitted entirely for two years, then initially placed in the wrong category (and still isn't recommended), so I will say that my experience does not align with yours and leave it there.

Here I don't know what you are talking about exactly. Is it about Kelutral's resources page? Your guide is literally called "excellent" there, so I don't know why you feel it isn't being recommended there.

Regarding Fwew, I always try to make a point of mentioning Fwew (and all other dictionaries) when people ask about dictionaries. I generally try to be neutral between the two subcommunities, for example, you can see that Reykunyu's FAQ page points interested learners to both Kelutral and Learn Na'vi. (Besides, think about it honestly, how often do people recommend Reykunyu on LN? Pot, meet kettle ;) )

Anyway, I will also leave it here to avoid derailing the thread further.

Tekre

#10
Quote from: tsyili on July 16, 2022, 08:14:42 PM
If anyone has feedback, questions, or concerns for the LN Discord staff and happenings within that server, they should bring it up to LN Discord staff to be addressed.
I am not in the collaboration server, but as team member of both Lerngruppe and Kelutral I know of several messages written there which were completely ignored by the LN stuff hrh

Quote from: tsyili on July 16, 2022, 08:14:42 PMThat being said, I notice that Fwew is missing from this resource and is rarely, if ever, recommended by anyone outside LN.
I recommended fwew a few times. Not as often as dict Na'vi and Reykunyu, but that has three reasons:
1. Reykunyu is the bot in the server I am active in, and it has the annotated dictionary included, which is, like I said, in my opinion the most useful resource we have. Like you I recommend what I personally find the best.
2. I personally don't use fwew and don't have the link at hand. But I several times actively searched for it again to show it to people when they don't want a recommendation, but just an overview which ones exist hrh
3. I personally prefer both, Reykunyu (for the reasons named) and also dict-na'vi over fwew. I personally use Reykunyu mostly, and dict-Na'vi has the one feature which annoys me about reykunyu: You can search English and Na'vi without having to switch mode. Also, the fwew website does things like giving me all words when I search for "word start r" in the list tab, and "word start r" is literally the example it gives me to try out the function hrh


Quote from: tsyili on July 16, 2022, 08:14:42 PMMy guide was omitted entirely for two years, then initially placed in the wrong category (and still isn't recommended), so I will say that my experience does not align with yours and leave it there.
But... it is recommended? hrh

I think one problem is that no one has a real overview what resources exist among the different communities. Kelutral tried to solve this problem by completely changing the resources channel in the server a few months ago - Anyone can now post their resources there, no matter if they are team member or not, and if they are part of another community or not. Because I for example rarely ever check the website, so I needed two years to realize your guide was missing there hrh

I still also have the dream of sharing each others lesson times, but sadly I seem to be the only one having that dream.

tsyili

I will not be sharing lesson times for classes that I cannot recommend to students, for the reasons I mentioned above.

Additionally, your trouble with Fwew is not an issue with Fwew, it's a typo. It's meant to be "word starts r", as is the example on the site.

Tekre

#12
It is sad that you seem to be so hostile for the idea that other lessons could be of value for learners too. I personally think that a bigger pool of lessons would mean more learners can enjoy them - not everyone is always available, so having more lessons to choose from  means more learners can profit from lessons. You never visited any of my lessons, and that you assume without any knowledge about them that they don't meet your quality standard is, let's say, slightly inpolite. Even though I know there have been disagreements between the communities I will still admit that you are a great teacher and that it is great that you do lessons, and if you have other feelings the other way around you are always invited to my lessons to build your opinion yourself instead of just assuming the lessons I do are bad and not worth recommending :)


Thanks for fixing that bug on the fwew page - (Edit, I was wrong here, it still doesn't work, it first shows the words starting with r (so it's definitely not me having the wrong command), but after a second it changes to the full word list again. Sometimes it works normally, sometimes it doesn't hrh) - I tried different writings there, including the one you wrote, but like I said, I already recommended fwew before a few times, and I will continue to do so. More resources are good for the community, that's what I believe and will always try to uphold.

Alyara Arati

Ma Tekre, I spent some time this morning reading through your work in progress twice, and I believe it shows great promise.  I like and admire your 100 Days of Na'vi very much so far.  Of course, I can't help noticing that there are many places where you could have taken the opportunity to mention resources other than those of the Kelutral Discord server.  For example, Learn Na'vi also has a nìNa'vi Nì'aw channel available to students.  However, as you say in the introduction, Kelutral is the community in which you are active and with which you are naturally most familiar.  You are under no obligation to promote the Kelutral and Learn Na'vi sites equally.  And I certainly don't intend to criticize you as a teacher.  Now that you have extended the invitation, perhaps I will attend a few of your classes, just as you are always welcome to come to mine.   As for the agreement, or lack thereof, regarding mutual posting of all scheduled lessons on both servers, I prefer not to discuss that point, since the parties involved seem to have widely varying understandings of what commitments were actually made during the meeting.  I hope you don't perceive what I've said as hostile in any way.
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Tekre

Thanks ma Alyara :)


I'll try to upload the new version with the next ten days tomorrow (the past few days I barely got to work on it so I'm a bit behind the time plan here hrh), and I also reworked some of my formulations to make them more neutral between the two communities. It will never be 100% neutral, because I am not and I would lie if I would pretend to be, but like I said, I believe in approach that students should decide for themself which resources and communities they find the most helpful for their learning style (given the resources are correct of course), or if they want to get the best from everything :D

Tekre

Because of vacation it took a bit longer, but all days are now online! I will definitely continue to add more links to resources everytime I find something I missed, but for now this project is finished :D

Toliman