Author Topic: Advice for Na’vi Learners  (Read 1893 times)

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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Advice for Na’vi Learners
« on: June 28, 2015, 03:05:14 am »
What's your advice? Answers can be long or short, general or specific. Students can also ask for advice.

I'll start:


If you don't know what to learn or how to learn, ask others how they did it.
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 03:29:11 am »
;D That’s a great idea ;)

Ma Kame Ayyo’koti,
tolätxaw nìprrte’ :) ke tsole’änga oel ngati txankrr. Sìlpey oe tsnì ngaru fpom livu.


If you don't know what to learn or how to learn, ask others how they did it.

Some things I’ve tried:

- try to translate random stuff – the more you search for a word, the sooner it will finally sink in.

- find someone to learn with – I know it’s getting a bit hard to find a regular study group (I’m very happy that our German study group seems to survive in its 5th installment :P ) but it’s important to discuss with others and try to communicate.

- try to speak/write and understand it – no language can survive without being spoken. Unfortunately, people seem to have lost interest in the spoken chat thread  :(

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2015, 10:25:33 am »
In my time, my learning cycle has gone like this:

1. Learning: look up a rule and/or a bunch of words. Dict-Na'vi and Horen / NiaN are great resources for this.
2. Practice: do your best to put the rules and words together. Make sentences, and lots of them. But make sure it stays fun! Start with simple ones and then go slightly more complicated.
3. Correction: Absolutely do not fear correction or being wrong, but embrace it. I've been corrected thousands of times, and each time, I learned something new and made progress. Have your work looked over by a reliable professional and see what they say. (could be me, Plumps, someone like that)
4. The cycle repeats itself here.

As long as this cycle continues moving, no matter the rate, you will be making progress.

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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2015, 04:09:45 pm »
Ma Kame Ayyo’koti,
tolätxaw nìprrte’ :) ke tsole’änga oel ngati txankrr. Sìlpey oe tsnì ngaru fpom livu.

Irayo ma Plumps. Lolu oer säspxintsyìp, slä fìtsengene frakrr oe tasyätxaw, nìmun nìmun (nìmunun?). Sunu oer fwa ngal fìtsengit mi tok.

More advice:
If you aren't sure whether a sentence or part of a sentence you've constructed is correct, look to see whether others construct it the same way. You can find lots of example sentences on Paul Frommer's blog, Na’vi in a Nutshell, and wm.annis's Reference Grammar of Na’vi.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 10:46:55 am by Kame Ayyo’koti »
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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2015, 07:31:25 pm »
I agree with Tirea Aean. You can also try to correct yourself. I have made a picture about it.
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2015, 09:55:37 am »
Agree with Kame's latest advice as well. I've actually done that a lot myself too.

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2015, 10:18:46 am »
Well, I think, learning Na'vi should make also fun. So, enjoy funny moments in Na'vi lessons (no matter if it's in chats, forum, or spoken etc). Such moments could help one to memorize grammar rules or new words better.

Probably also helpful: create mini projects that could help you to consolidate your knowledge about Na'vi.

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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2015, 10:55:36 am »
Well, I think, learning Na'vi should make also fun. So, enjoy funny moments in Na'vi lessons (no matter if it's in chats, forum, or spoken etc). Such moments could help one to memorize grammar rules or new words better.

Probably also helpful: create mini projects that could help you to consolidate your knowledge about Na'vi.
I've done this. When I first got started I wrote a random phrase-making generator in a program called TableSmith*, and one memorable phrase it spat out was fkxen tìngayä. It's been an ongoing joke in my studies.

Oel fkxenit fneian nìpxi. ;) ;D
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 10:59:46 am by Kame Ayyo’koti »
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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2015, 10:25:02 pm »
Probably also helpful: create mini projects that could help you to consolidate your knowledge about Na'vi.
Yes :D

But also, one shouldn't spend all or most efforts on the project itself and lose focus on the language learning. Or else no learning will occur. Especially if the tasks required to complete the project do not involve the use of the Na'vi language.
(Speaking mostly about the programmers among us, myself included. We shouldn't focus all efforts on code and servers if our objective is to obtain fluency in the Na'vi language. ;) *thinks about how to make more appearances in the chat threads... :S*)


fkxen tìngayä


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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2015, 10:34:45 pm »
HRH

Of course, I mean: create mini project time to time, not like I do. ;P

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 01:27:04 am »
I guess I'll keep adding advice in here every time I can remember or think of some that helped me along the way.

Here are several that I am thinking of right now:

* I probably cannot stress enough this one: Just get out there and give it a shot! The worst that could happen is that your sentence or translation is not totally correct and it will get corrected, resulting in a step towards learning.

* Memorizing all the rules straight out of a grammar document is not very organic or efficient. And definitely isn't the most fun. The most organic (and imo fun) way to learn grammar is by attempting conversations and getting nudged along the way with corrections. There is a board here for that now: http://forum.learnnavi.org/ninavi-practice-conversations/ and a Chat thread: http://forum.learnnavi.org/beginners/pivangkxo-ninavi-ko!-beginner-navi-chat-thread/ And Teachers, those corrections should not be very technical and should be simple to understand even for a child.

* Memorizing all the words straught out of a dictionary is not very organic or efficient either. I've found that Memrise.com and the Memrise mobile app have been great tools for vocab learning. I'm also a pretty big fan of Dict-Na'vi categorized word lists: http://dict-navi.com/en/dictionary/affiliation/

* Many people use flashcards, some do not. I never did. Everyone is different.

* Take notes of things you don't understand and then search the forums for answers. If nothing within the last year pops up, feel free to add a thread in the appropriate section asking your question. We're all here to help. :D

* You'll find that many words are similar. If you are unsure of the difference, feel free to search and ask. The answers are out there. Some words are even synonymous. Like fìtseng and fìtsenge, though they are two different entries.

* 1:1 Native Language -> Na'vi translation works successfully roughly 30% of the time. Different languages have different ways of saying things. Think about the concept or idea you are trying to convey and use the best fit Na'vi to express it. Don't get too tied up on translating words or phrases word-for-word 1:1. Some words literally don't exist (yet?) so you may have to get creative. That's part of the fun sometimes!

* Writing poetry in Na'vi can be very fun and people can come up with beautiful works of word art. When writing poetry, grammar rules can bend a little bit. For rhyming poetry like on Earth, I've compiled an ever-updating Na'vi Rhyme dictionary, here: http://tirea.learnnavi.org/dictionarydata/NaviRhymeDictionary.html

* If you are having trouble coming up with a name, you may have considered searching for a Name-generator. Almost every one of them on the internet is terrible. So a user once called Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng has created an actually good one that creates names that are both formed according to the language sound rules and are of the standard cultural form. This Legitimate Na'vi name generator is here: http://tirea.learnnavi.org/generate.php

* It's fun to read and write with others using the language. It's even more fun, I've found, to try to SPEAK the language with others. we have a TeamSpeak 3 server, and many members have Skype accounts. Give it a shot! (Teamspeak has been somewhat empty recently, but when people see that people are on, people tend to come on more often.)

* There is a "LearnNavi Forum" Facebook group with many many members, if you're a person who spends a lot of time on Facebook and are interested.

* Want to know what the language sounds like? All of the Sounds of the language can be found on this page: http://tirea.learnnavi.org/sounds Na'vi has VERY regular spelling, and pronunciation of sounds based on spelling is totally predictable once you've mastered the sounds. I recommend learning them early on.

* Stay focused and keep it fun.

* Don't be afraid to ask questions

* The forum search function is not the greatest. Often, I search Google like this:
some search terms site:forum.learnnavi.org

* Paul Frommer's blog, Na'viteri (http://naviteri.org), has many great example sentences in addition to being the place where brand new vocabulary is released. All new vocabulary for months now have had audio recordings. More listening and speaking practice!

* Na'viteri search function is pretty terrible too. When not working, Google like this:
some search terms site:naviteri.org
Better yet, run a Page Search on Tìtstewan's Offline Na'viteri HTML page: http://forum.learnnavi.org/beginners/naviteri-as-pdf-file/msg628543/#msg628543

* BEWARE of YouTube videos about the language. Pretty much only trust Na'vi language related videos found on Learn Na'vi YouTube channel. http://youtube.com/LearnNavi

* Definitely BEWARE of that Kaltxì Palulukan Easiest Way to Learn Na'vi EVER Activity Book.

I guess that's it for now. If I think of more advice, I'll add it here. :D
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 01:38:34 am by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2015, 01:35:52 am »
I can only second this! :D

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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2015, 01:41:51 am »
* Definitely BEWARE of that Kaltxì Palulukan Easiest Way to Learn Na'vi EVER Activity Book.

Could you explain why? AFAIK it had incorrect information in it. :-\
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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2015, 01:50:22 am »
From the Na'vi book project notes:
Quote from: Tìtstewan
Important Note

Recently, there was some discussions about rewriting, correcting or updating the "Activity Book" originally written by Dusty White or better known as Kaltxì Palulukan!. There was some "problems" in the forum background way back in the past. I don't know any details about it, and I better won't know anything about it as the following words describes it more than enough: "There was a great deal of drama about 4 years ago that I wouldn't like to resurrect" - M.

The Interpretation of the textes which has been posted recently suggest that nobody should try to rewrite, correct, update or take the old one as a reference in any way.  [...]

And it is very outdated.

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2015, 01:54:03 am »
* Definitely BEWARE of that Kaltxì Palulukan Easiest Way to Learn Na'vi EVER Activity Book.

Could you explain why? AFAIK it had incorrect information in it. :-\

That's reason enough, right?

And:

From the Na'vi book project notes:
Quote from: Tìtstewan
Important Note

Recently, there was some discussions about rewriting, correcting or updating the "Activity Book" originally written by Dusty White or better known as Kaltxì Palulukan!. There was some "problems" in the forum background way back in the past. I don't know any details about it, and I better won't know anything about it as the following words describes it more than enough: "There was a great deal of drama about 4 years ago that I wouldn't like to resurrect" - M.

The Interpretation of the textes which has been posted recently suggest that nobody should try to rewrite, correct, update or take the old one as a reference in any way.  [...]

And it is very outdated.

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Offline Tstewa Ikrantsyìp

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2015, 06:09:30 pm »
I know it's extreme, but lately I've been doing this with my teacher Tirea Aean, but seriously, just start a conversation in Na'vi, it doesn't matter how much you know. just start a conversation.

I myself made a handbook full of terms, most used sentences, descriptions and the like which helps me out. so I have 3 things that I do which I suggest.
-
1. make yourself a nice little hand-booklet, that you can carry around and reference regularly.
2. download Memrise and dedicate yourself to learning the different courses.
3. have a conversation, and only use English, if you really TRULY need to.

overall, learn the basics and then USE them.
I've only started learning Na'vi a few weeks ago despite being in the community for well over 18 months. and I am halfway to holding a steady conversation in Na'vi and not having to translate most of what my conversation partner says. it works.
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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2015, 07:01:41 pm »
I know it's extreme, but lately I've been doing this with my teacher Tirea Aean, but seriously, just start a conversation in Na'vi, it doesn't matter how much you know. just start a conversation.

Seriously good advice. I'm seeing the results with my own eyes every day.

Quote
1. make yourself a nice little hand-booklet, that you can carry around and reference regularly.
2. download Memrise and dedicate yourself to learning the different courses.
3. have a conversation, and only use English, if you really TRULY need to.
I like these a lot too!

Quote
overall, learn the basics and then USE them.
^ and this.

Quote
I've only started learning Na'vi a few weeks ago despite being in the community for well over 18 months. and I am halfway to holding a steady conversation in Na'vi and not having to translate most of what my conversation partner says. it works.
^ And It's seeing things like this that makes my week.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 08:47:24 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2015, 07:58:37 pm »
Quote
Seriously good advice. I'm seeing the results with my own eyes every day.
This can be attributed to having a good teacher who has an endless supply of patience. HRH

Quote
I like these a lot too!
Irayo. they work, and that's why they're good.

Quote
and this.
Irayo

Quote
And It's seeing things like this that makes my week.
I'm glad. it makes both our weeks.
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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2015, 10:41:42 am »
I myself made a handbook full of terms, most used sentences, descriptions and the like which helps me out. so I have 3 things that I do which I suggest.
-
1. make yourself a nice little hand-booklet, that you can carry around and reference regularly.
I like the idea of a reference booklet or list of common expressions/phrases to use in conversation. It could help people get into speaking and understanding Na’vi much faster. :)
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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Re: Advice for Na’vi Learners
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2015, 03:45:32 pm »
* I probably cannot stress enough this one: Just get out there and give it a shot! The worst that could happen is that your sentence or translation is not totally correct and it will get corrected, resulting in a step towards learning.
* Many people use flashcards, some do not. I never did. Everyone is different.

I've read a lot of polyglot blogs, and there are different schools of thought when it comes to learning languages, and polyglots disagree with each other about what is best. Some polyglots, like Benny, insist on speaking and writing even if mistakes are made. Others, like Khatzumoto, insist on having immense amounts of input (reading/listening) before attempting any output (speaking/writing).

I'm convinced that it comes down to personality. Tirea Aean, for example, seems to have really enjoyed learning by speaking, mistakes notwithstanding. I, on the other hand, found it agonizing to speak in the beginning before I knew anything, and deal with the anxiety of not knowing whether anything I said was correct (and the "bombardments" of corrections that would inevitably follow). For me, massive input before output was the way to go, which I've done with flashcards. Now I can say lots of things with confidence that it'll be correct, and can mostly avoid the unpleasantness of corrections.

This isn't a matter of which is right or wrong. Tirea is clearly very skilled, so his method worked for him. Learners need to try things and decide for themselves what best suits them. :-\
"Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart give yourself to it."

 

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