Author Topic: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!  (Read 3810 times)

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« on: July 26, 2014, 05:40:55 am »
Kaltxì ma Smuk!

Maybe you have heard or observed that there was something in the background for a new project. Finally, I proudly announce the "Na’vi Language Book" project! So, what exactly is this project about and what is its mission? Our project mission is to create a language book which contains all available canon sources about Na'vi and bring theses sources together into one big book. It will be a quasi Horen leNa'vi, but with minimum linguistic terminology and more detailed. There will be not only that "big book", there will be also a much shorter "little book" which could possibly be the successor to the "Na'vi in a Nutshell", which will be based on the big languge book. Both books will become new and most up to date autoritative learning resources.

This project is supposed to be a team effort with similar but not the same structure as the LEP. The idea is that the project members create these books chapter by chapter, so that the books will have a modular and flexible structure which should be ready for use for the future. The primary work will be the "big book", because it needs the most of work and time, then the small one will follow. We will - by the way - also be updating the LearnNa'vi Wiki as there is a lot of stuff missing. If everything works like it should, the books will be finished before Avatar 2 is in the cinemas.

Everyone who participates will, by the nature of the process, surrender any claim to ownership or copyright claim of any kind to any fragment of work that is done in the pursuit of collaborating in this group. This project is for everyone, who loves to study Na’vi and do something for the Community. The names of the project members will be proudly added to the final products!

Looking for volunteers!

Currently, only Tirea Aean and I are involved in this project and we would love to see some more members join us! Before can you join, you should know something about Na'vi, of course, and many many ideas! As I already mentioned, this project will be a team effort, but also fun! That means, you will get all necessary access for this project. We are using docs on Google Drive, so we do need your Google ID (don't post it here, for that we have a place full of awesome teylu ;-)) The structure is quite similar like the LEP, but here there's no work period and no time related cycles because of flexibility. You can work on this project whenever you have time and whenever you feel able to do any work
So, if you are interested to join this project, post here or write a PM to me or Tirea Aean. The project organizators are Tirea Aean and Tìtstewan.


Lets have a masterpiece created by the community members! :) - 'Ivong Na'vi!

 - ayngeyä Tìtstewan sì Tirea Aean
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 04:21:09 am by Tìtstewan »

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2014, 02:00:54 am »
I am willing to help with this project, but probably not until later in September, when hopefully, the big cat ban bill I am fighting here will hopefully have been vanquished.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2014, 02:53:20 am »
Txantsan!  :D
I'm currently on a mobile phone, I will grant you access  to the necessary places later, when I'm back from work. (at home)

E: you have a PM. :)

E: fixed stupid mistakes by mobile phone "keyboard"
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 09:07:41 am by Tìtstewan »

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2014, 03:17:38 pm »
Irayo, ma Tìtstewan. I saw the PM. I will check it out this evening.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Tstewa Ikrantsyìp

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2014, 02:20:28 am »
I would love to help ma soaia in any way I can.
ma karyu tirea has helped me, so i wish to help him and all his friends in any way i can.
just ask.
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Offline Rotobull cz

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2014, 04:46:27 am »
Sounds great !! :)

Just like in my profile: "I love Na'vi and their language." So… I will help, as I can. :D
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2014, 04:57:26 am »
I have no power to grant you all access to the necessary place expect that google drive folder... So, I will have to PM an admin.
Tìmweypey ma smuk. :)

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2014, 03:28:11 pm »
Well, this look like interesting and useful project. Maybe I could help in some way, but first I'd like to ask for more info.
You wrote that "big book" will contain all cannon sources. How this book will differ from existing cannon in wiki? Also, if you speak about horen - how it will be related to horen? Horen le'Navi is list of known rules derived from Paul's texts by analysis and these rules are demonstrated on examples, but surely horen do not contains all available sources, so I'm in doubts how final document will look like. IMO creating simplified horen for "normal" people is good idea, but it is not necessary to use all cannon.
New Nian is also good idea and I think there's better chance for success.
Do you have same patterns how chapters should be written, what style... ?
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2014, 04:03:39 pm »
Well, this look like interesting and useful project. Maybe I could help in some way, but first I'd like to ask for more info.
:D

You wrote that "big book" will contain all cannon sources. How this book will differ from existing cannon in wiki?
Yes. That book is supposed to have all available canon sources we can get. (plus a little update of the Wiki as many many canon sources for the new book will refer on the wiki stuff.)
The book will have a better structure that those big wiki pages.

Also, if you speak about horen - how it will be related to horen? Horen le'Navi is list of known rules derived from Paul's texts by analysis and these rules are demonstrated on examples, but surely horen do not contains all available sources, so I'm in doubts how final document will look like. IMO creating simplified horen for "normal" people is good idea, but it is not necessary to use all cannon.
It is planned to create a more modern version of the Horen, with more Na'vi examples, better/more understandable explanations and trying not to overuse scientific language (I know, it's not possible to leave it completely out :S)
If everything is done (this is still a plan), I or Tirea will send the books to K. Pawl to let him taking a look at them.

New Nian is also good idea and I think there's better chance for success.
If the "Big Book" is finished, the "small book" will written. The small one (aka NiaN II) will contain all important stuff what a beginner need for their first step into Na'vi. It is supposed that the small Book contains refering links to the big book for the case if the Beginner want to know more details about that category/chapter/footnote etc.

Do you have same patterns how chapters should be written, what style... ?
Some stuff are in the private board and on Google Drive. The books should be modular to be flexible for future updates. But concrete design or style isn't available yet.

So, I hope, I don't forgot something...

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Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2014, 07:40:38 pm »
 :D  I will offer my help, too.  :D
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2014, 02:16:56 am »
:D  I will offer my help, too.  :D
Woutewtikosmannìtxannang! :D

I will give you access to the google drive folder later when I am back on my desktop pc.

Edit: You have a PM. :)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 05:23:24 am by Tìtstewan »

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Offline Plumps

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2014, 06:36:39 am »
I’d also offer my help although I don’t know how much time I can spare with the projects I’ve already taken on… Time will tell. :)

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2014, 07:25:34 am »
Ah, that should be not the problem as the design of this project is that one can work on it if one have time. :)

Lu ngar 'upxare a oeta. :)

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2014, 11:57:50 am »
Although both of these books would be great, I remember there was better idea, which unfortunately died because of lack of interest.
It was serie of books planned by Kaltxì palulukan. First book was activity book, which was revised later (this thread, message of death). Both of these contained some errors, so it wasn't accepted too well, but Ifound these books quite useful in my beginnings.

IMHO now we could revive this work. Author in not active anymore, but I rememebr he had developed some special method of learning Na'vi. I think we could try to contact him and ask I he would be interested to start the project again - as there is good number of people ready for such project. Even if he will not be interested, maybe he can give us some ideas etc.
Honestly I think textbooks created as workbook/activity book are better than just complete cannon. Action helps to learn better than just read a lot of texts.
what do you think? Of course I'm ready to help with any project - as my time permits.
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Offline 阿波

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2014, 12:17:12 pm »
Personally, I believe in the Input Hypothesis (you can read about it on Wikipedia). Grammar and vocabulary drills aren't the best way of achieving fluency - it's comprehensible input. And a LOT of it. So, I think it'd be better to create a lot of materials to read, for learners of all levels, perhaps even graded readers once the frequency dictionary project is finished. Otherwise you'll just develop a "monitor", you'll consciously think how to conjugate each verb, etc. instead of just doing it naturally/automatically; and you'll keep translating some other language to Na'vi, when trying to speak or write.

Offline Rotobull cz

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2014, 01:01:55 pm »
But don't you think Na'vi language deserves its own book ? Real book, not just stuff on the Internet.
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2014, 01:23:28 pm »
Although both of these books would be great, I remember there was better idea, which unfortunately died because of lack of interest.
It was serie of books planned by Kaltxì palulukan. First book was activity book, which was revised later (this thread, message of death). Both of these contained some errors, so it wasn't accepted too well, but Ifound these books quite useful in my beginnings.

IMHO now we could revive this work. Author in not active anymore, but I rememebr he had developed some special method of learning Na'vi. I think we could try to contact him and ask I he would be interested to start the project again - as there is good number of people ready for such project. Even if he will not be interested, maybe he can give us some ideas etc.
Honestly I think textbooks created as workbook/activity book are better than just complete cannon. Action helps to learn better than just read a lot of texts.
what do you think? Of course I'm ready to help with any project - as my time permits.
I'm personally not a fan of having alot of books. The big book will consume the most of time and work as alot of stuff will base on it, especially the the "NiaN II". I've downloaded his book form that thread you gave me. I see nothing which would be that special as it look quite similar like a english workbook from the school, I have somewhere. The idea and the structure is similar like a school language workbook, with images, puns, puzzles, sudoku etc.
I better mention this here, just to prevent unnecessary discussions later: we cannot simply "taking over" things from other member's work, no matter if one is not active anymore. For that case, we need their permissions and this would be against the project idea to create a 100% community product (means by the project team). To be honest, I have no problem, if one ask member X (in this case Kaltxì Palulukan), if we could use his material, but I have the fear that one time, the author could withdraw the permission and then we have a problem. This would be a backdoor I wouldn't like to have.
As the original idea of this project is to create a new reference source plus a new NiaN, I see nothing against the idea to create also such a workbook. So, it would be finally three books to do: "the big one", the "small one" and a workbook/activity book.
As for the ideas for such a book, one can find tons of materials and inspiration on the interent, so that would be not a huge barrier. However, if one have the possibility to ask Kaltxì Palulukan for help, advices and ideas, just do it, but I would be careful of using other people's material.

Of course I'm ready to help with any project - as my time permits.
I'll PM you later. :)



Personally, I believe in the Input Hypothesis (you can read about it on Wikipedia). Grammar and vocabulary drills aren't the best way of achieving fluency - it's comprehensible input. And a LOT of it. So, I think it'd be better to create a lot of materials to read, for learners of all levels, perhaps even graded readers once the frequency dictionary project is finished. Otherwise you'll just develop a "monitor", you'll consciously think how to conjugate each verb, etc. instead of just doing it naturally/automatically; and you'll keep translating some other language to Na'vi, when trying to speak or write.
But, we cannot create stuff for every learner of all level, because first, we don't know all possible level, secondly, every person has an own learning style. That mean we can only create a learning materials which cover a limited range of possible learning levels. The "big book" is planned to be a compromise of scientific level and advance / "high" intermediate level, without to mention what or where are the excact borders of there words "advance" or "high intermediate".
The big book should be a "Horen 2.0" but - as already mentioned - more modern with more Na'vi examples, better/more understandable explanations and trying not to overuse scientific language. The small one would cover the beginner / "low" intermediate level range. There is also the thing, that there are people who are scared to have too much materials.

Also not to mention, that we havn't endless time to create so much stuff. Translation also takes alot of work...



But don't you think Na'vi language deserves its own book ? Real book, not just stuff on the Internet.
This is what we trying to create. :)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 01:26:35 pm by Tìtstewan »

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2014, 09:39:28 am »
I'm personally not a fan of having alot of books. The big book will consume the most of time and work as alot of stuff will base on it, especially the the "NiaN II". I've downloaded his book form that thread you gave me. I see nothing which would be that special as it look quite similar like a english workbook from the school, I have somewhere. The idea and the structure is similar like a school language workbook, with images, puns, puzzles, sudoku etc.
I personally would prefer more thinner books than one thick. At least it is better for carrying, when you want to study on the travel etc. :) Strange reason, but it can have its weight.
Quote
I better mention this here, just to prevent unnecessary discussions later: we cannot simply "taking over" things from other member's work, no matter if one is not active anymore. For that case, we need their permissions and this would be against the project idea to create a 100% community product (means by the project team). To be honest, I have no problem, if one ask member X (in this case Kaltxì Palulukan), if we could use his material, but I have the fear that one time, the author could withdraw the permission and then we have a problem. This would be a backdoor I wouldn't like to have.
I didn't say anything about using someone other's work. What I meant was to ask him for cooperation and perhaps ideas. He wanted to write 8 volume serie in simple style, so everyone can learn easily. I'll try to find his email address in my archive, but I'm afraid it is lost...
Quote
As the original idea of this project is to create a new reference source plus a new NiaN, I see nothing against the idea to create also such a workbook. So, it would be finally three books to do: "the big one", the "small one" and a workbook/activity book.
As for the ideas for such a book, one can find tons of materials and inspiration on the interent, so that would be not a huge barrier. However, if one have the possibility to ask Kaltxì Palulukan for help, advices and ideas, just do it, but I would be careful of using other people's material.
Main reason of my support of workbook is to learn easily and with fun. Reading of thick book is not amusing at all, although it can work for some people. But working with puzzles, cross-words and other simple games helps you remember words in simpler way than studying dictionary.
IMO we needs to decide what we need (or want to create) - something what helps to learn Na'vi for everyone or big book with complete grammar, rules etc. - although written in simpler style and better understandable than Horen leNa'vi.
If I remember my beginnings, I'd prefer first option more.
Just my opinion.
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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2014, 11:39:48 am »
Sorry that I reply late, I was kinda busy last days...

I'm personally not a fan of having alot of books. The big book will consume the most of time and work as alot of stuff will base on it, especially the the "NiaN II". I've downloaded his book form that thread you gave me. I see nothing which would be that special as it look quite similar like a english workbook from the school, I have somewhere. The idea and the structure is similar like a school language workbook, with images, puns, puzzles, sudoku etc.
I personally would prefer more thinner books than one thick. At least it is better for carrying, when you want to study on the travel etc. :) Strange reason, but it can have its weight.
Is that planned new "Nian II" not a thin book for beginner? I think, if there is really a desire for such a "activity book" then, there is absolutely no problem to create also a workbook or even a workbook series like the activity book.
One could create a mini group of volunteers who works on a subproject; big book, small book and the "activity book". It sounds fine, doen't it? :)

I better mention this here, just to prevent unnecessary discussions later: we cannot simply "taking over" things from other member's work, no matter if one is not active anymore. For that case, we need their permissions and this would be against the project idea to create a 100% community product (means by the project team). To be honest, I have no problem, if one ask member X (in this case Kaltxì Palulukan), if we could use his material, but I have the fear that one time, the author could withdraw the permission and then we have a problem. This would be a backdoor I wouldn't like to have.
I didn't say anything about using someone other's work. What I meant was to ask him for cooperation and perhaps ideas. He wanted to write 8 volume serie in simple style, so everyone can learn easily. I'll try to find his email address in my archive, but I'm afraid it is lost...
I've mentioned that to be on the safe side.
It would be nice, if one could get useful information.

As the original idea of this project is to create a new reference source plus a new NiaN, I see nothing against the idea to create also such a workbook. So, it would be finally three books to do: "the big one", the "small one" and a workbook/activity book.
As for the ideas for such a book, one can find tons of materials and inspiration on the interent, so that would be not a huge barrier. However, if one have the possibility to ask Kaltxì Palulukan for help, advices and ideas, just do it, but I would be careful of using other people's material.
Main reason of my support of workbook is to learn easily and with fun. Reading of thick book is not amusing at all, although it can work for some people. But working with puzzles, cross-words and other simple games helps you remember words in simpler way than studying dictionary.
IMO we needs to decide what we need (or want to create) - something what helps to learn Na'vi for everyone or big book with complete grammar, rules etc. - although written in simpler style and better understandable than Horen leNa'vi.
If I remember my beginnings, I'd prefer first option more.
Just my opinion.
Hmm, I see this:
A team works on the activity book.
Another team work on the big book (then, late on the new "NiaN")

Now, I somehow like that idea: Horen II, NiaN II and Activity book II :)

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Re: Join the project “Na’vi Language Book”!
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2014, 06:31:20 pm »
are there many materials that are able to be collected outside of the internet, like physical pieces that would help with the book projects out there?

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