Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way

Started by MuneTompaTaem, January 07, 2012, 11:48:01 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Taronyu Leleioae

#120
Quote from: Blue Elf on April 09, 2013, 06:29:30 AM
Too bad.... can be problem solved by definition change like this: ?
ramunong: [Ra."mu.noN] PF n. well -> well (source of water)

I'd be cautious with this saying that it is a source of "water".  Obviously, that's what we think of as a well for living.  However you can have an oil well.  Gas well.  And canon, "ayVitrayä Ramunong" is "Well of Souls", not water.  Thus I'd modify this to suggest it be more generic.

well (source of object)


=================

Quote from: Tsyalatun te Eyktan Txuratu'itanI am aware of this, and I've covered it in previous postings.  As Alyara says, removing it messes up the numbering - the numbers are only there as titles to each level - they don't get automatically updated.  Not only that, but it also creates a level of 19 words, which, given the way memrise currently works causes interesting effects with the two-stage planting process.  So at the moment, I'm opting to leave it in.  I suggest anyone bothered by this sets this entry to "ignore".

Going back to removal of the word lonataya, why can't you just move the same (replacement) word to fill the position?  Ok, you end up with a double entry.  Also, how many people have actually passed that word in learning?  My concern here and what bothers me more, is that Karyu Pawl has directed LN to remove the word.  Yet keeping it is contrary to this.  I just think it sets a precedent being in conflict (authoritative) with the official dictionary without warning the learner of the change.

Alyara Arati

You might also be able to erase the incorrect word, change the definition to "freebie" or something and the computer will then give credit for anything one writes or clicks on.  Someone did this on another course that I studied.  ;D
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Tsyalatun te Eyktan Txuratu'itan

Quote from: Taronyu Leleioae on April 09, 2013, 09:07:04 AM
Quote from: Blue Elf on April 09, 2013, 06:29:30 AM
Too bad.... can be problem solved by definition change like this: ?
ramunong: [Ra."mu.noN] PF n. well -> well (source of water)

I'd be cautious with this saying that it is a source of "water".  Obviously, that's what we think of as a well for living.  However you can have an oil well.  Gas well.  And canon, "ayVitrayä Ramunong" is "Well of Souls", not water.  Thus I'd modify this to suggest it be more generic.

well (source of object)
This is exactly the reason that any changes like this should come from the dictionary data, not be alterations from it - so any clarification of the meaning should go via the official dictionary thread.

Quote from: Taronyu Leleioae on April 09, 2013, 09:07:04 AM
Quote from: Tsyalatun te Eyktan Txuratu'itanI am aware of this, and I've covered it in previous postings.  As Alyara says, removing it messes up the numbering - the numbers are only there as titles to each level - they don't get automatically updated.  Not only that, but it also creates a level of 19 words, which, given the way memrise currently works causes interesting effects with the two-stage planting process.  So at the moment, I'm opting to leave it in.  I suggest anyone bothered by this sets this entry to "ignore".

Going back to removal of the word lonataya, why can't you just move the same (replacement) word to fill the position?  Ok, you end up with a double entry.  Also, how many people have actually passed that word in learning?  My concern here and what bothers me more, is that Karyu Pawl has directed LN to remove the word.  Yet keeping it is contrary to this.  I just think it sets a precedent being in conflict (authoritative) with the official dictionary without warning the learner of the change.

If I just delete lonataya, it will have three effects by creating a level with 19 words.
1. We end up with level 10 saying "181 - 200" yet it no longer contains 20 words.  The "181 - 200" are a name for the level, not a count of the words in there.
2. When people complete level 10, memrise will report that they have learned 199 words, not 200, which will be confusing for them.
3. With the current memrise three-stage learning process, you will be offered words (i = initial planting, f = full planting) 181-185i, 186-190i, 181-185f, 191-195i, 186-190f, 196-199i+191f, 192-197f, 198-199f - or worse, it may decide to give you all the last 9 words in one go.

I suppose what I could do is change the Na'vi and English both to "IGNORE THIS ENTRY" and hope that people set the entry to ignore...

There is another possibility is to delete all the levels and recreate them from scratch.  I think memrise won't wipe your learning history, but I think that will be very disruptive as I think memrise has to "think" about that for a while to repopulate the learning history for each learner... and if that doesn't happen I guess I won't be popular.

Tirea Aean

I would like to personally thank you ma Tsyalatun for all the work you do on the Memrise course on my behalf, and also all of you who report inconsistencies and errors. Much appreciated. :)

Blue Elf

As for lonataya: IMHO best is to edit manually record in memrise to something like: *lonataya (deleted, now unofficial word). This would be clear enough for people.

As for "well - adverb/noun" problem: IMHO manual edit is necessary here too, as Markì do not change definition in main dictionary (and I fully understand why - main dictionary can't be changed just because other applications relying on data derived from dictionary handle data in undesired way). What about these definitions:
nìltsan = well (adverb)
ramunong = well (noun)

normally I do not look at word type in question, I check it just when I'm not sure at first moment. And for "well" my first idea is always nìltsan :(
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tsyalatun te Eyktan Txuratu'itan

Quote from: Tirea Aean on April 09, 2013, 09:48:38 PM
I would like to personally thank you ma Tsyalatun for all the work you do on the Memrise course on my behalf, and also all of you who report inconsistencies and errors. Much appreciated. :)

Irayo ma Tirea.  At some point we need to discuss the future of adding further audio to your course - we need to find someone with a good ear to do some vetting...

Tsyalatun te Eyktan Txuratu'itan

Quote from: Blue Elf on April 10, 2013, 01:50:37 AM
As for "well - adverb/noun" problem: IMHO manual edit is necessary here too, as Markì do not change definition in main dictionary (and I fully understand why - main dictionary can't be changed just because other applications relying on data derived from dictionary handle data in undesired way). What about these definitions:
nìltsan = well (adverb)
ramunong = well (noun)

normally I do not look at word type in question, I check it just when I'm not sure at first moment. And for "well" my first idea is always nìltsan :(
Well, exactly the same applies to a number of other words - for example colours.  For example, ean vs eampin = blue, green.  First is an adjective, second is a noun.  Then we have tìspe'e vs spe'e - the same problem.  So no, I don't think we should solve this by changing the English definition, otherwise it's going to make it impossible to keep in sync with the LN.org data.

I have contacted the memrise folk about this, and we will see what they have to say about this.  Maybe they can stop this automatic synonym behaviour, or provide course creators with the ability to control this behaviour.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Tsyalatun te Eyktan Txuratu'itan on April 10, 2013, 03:10:19 PM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on April 09, 2013, 09:48:38 PM
I would like to personally thank you ma Tsyalatun for all the work you do on the Memrise course on my behalf, and also all of you who report inconsistencies and errors. Much appreciated. :)

Irayo ma Tirea.  At some point we need to discuss the future of adding further audio to your course - we need to find someone with a good ear to do some vetting...

For the record, I'm totally FOR the idea of putting audio in the course.

If not me, I believe Ney would be great for the job. IF she feels like it. Because I haven't seen 'Oma Tirea in centuries. There are others.

Alyara Arati

Thank you both for your time and energy that you put into this. :D

There is an error in level 75, #1501-1520: wayä aylì'u is misspelled as wayä ayli'u, with an i instead of an ì.
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Palulukan Maktoyu

Just curious is it also misspelled in dictionary? If so let them know on dictionary thread. As Tsyalatun is away for a week
Fkol syaw oeru Palulukan Maktoyu Ta'lengean

Twitter: https://twitter.com/navi_wotd

Taronyu Leleioae

#130
Quote from: Palulukan Maktoyu Ta'lengean on April 11, 2013, 10:53:40 AM
Just curious is it also misspelled in dictionary? If so let them know on dictionary thread. As Tsyalatun is away for a week

Just looked in my hard copy.  Yes, it is a mistake on the dictionary database level...


*reposted to dictionary thread...*

Palulukan Maktoyu

now that's dedication, sacrificing both paper and an ink tank to a constantly changing document. *Bows horrifically ;D*
Fkol syaw oeru Palulukan Maktoyu Ta'lengean

Twitter: https://twitter.com/navi_wotd

Taronyu Leleioae

Quote from: Palulukan Maktoyu Ta'lengean on April 11, 2013, 11:04:38 AM
now that's dedication, sacrificing both paper and an ink tank to a constantly changing document. *Bows horrifically ;D*

Shamefully admits to, but it's easier on my eyes...  However, I've only done this a few times off my laser printer, not for every change.  Last version actually was from October 2012.  (Then I pen in the changes and put notes in the margins.)  At least it's double sided...  and then gets properly recycled.  ;)

Palulukan Maktoyu

i shall in that case ( after they fix this next bit ) sacrifice 14 pages doublesided in booklet format ( so that way i get 4 pages per page hrh )
Fkol syaw oeru Palulukan Maktoyu Ta'lengean

Twitter: https://twitter.com/navi_wotd

Toruk Makto

Quote from: Taronyu Leleioae on April 11, 2013, 10:56:31 AM
Quote from: Palulukan Maktoyu Ta'lengean on April 11, 2013, 10:53:40 AM
Just curious is it also misspelled in dictionary? If so let them know on dictionary thread. As Tsyalatun is away for a week

Just looked in my hard copy.  Yes, it is a mistake on the dictionary database level...


*reposted to dictionary thread...*

Corrected. Thanks!

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Taronyu Leleioae

A minor issue with the All Na'vi Words - Level 24 - (461-480).

If you know, it's not a problem, but to type tuté you need the " é " letter.  (ALT+ 0233).
But if you do not remember that alt code, there is no button/icon to click on for that letter underneath the text box.
Quick solution might be just to manually put in a hint with that alt code.

Tirea Aean

#136
Quote from: Taronyu Leleioae on April 11, 2013, 07:50:25 PM
A minor issue with the All Na'vi Words - Level 24 - (461-480).

If you know, it's not a problem, but to type tuté you need the " é " letter.  (ALT+ 0233).
But if you do not remember that alt code, there is no button/icon to click on for that letter underneath the text box.
Quick solution might be just to manually put in a hint with that alt code.

ah! Thanks for reminding me about that. I'll add the button now as soon as I can. Unless Tsyalatun does it before I do ;D

Palulukan Maktoyu

Quote from: Tirea Aean on April 11, 2013, 08:28:24 PM
Quote from: Taronyu Leleioae on April 11, 2013, 07:50:25 PM
A minor issue with the All Na'vi Words - Level 24 - (461-480).

If you know, it's not a problem, but to type tuté you need the " é " letter.  (ALT+ 0233).
But if you do not remember that alt code, there is no button/icon to click on for that letter underneath the text box.
Quick solution might be just to manually put in a hint with that alt code.

ah! Thanks for reminding me about that. I'll add the button now as soon as I can. Unless Tsyalatun does it before I do ;D

I'm typing this on a Windows Laptop with the Kxwerty turned off éééééééééééé  on the right side of the windows space bar is an ALT/GR button press that and the letter E and you will get é
(Tirea you told me about that ) tablets shouldn't have this issue as you longpress and select, same for most smartphones and as for tablets with keyboards, Android there is a few solutions to this if anyone wants to know. i'll go into it =)
Fkol syaw oeru Palulukan Maktoyu Ta'lengean

Twitter: https://twitter.com/navi_wotd

Tsyalatun te Eyktan Txuratu'itan

Quote from: Tirea Aean on April 11, 2013, 08:28:24 PM
Quote from: Taronyu Leleioae on April 11, 2013, 07:50:25 PM
A minor issue with the All Na'vi Words - Level 24 - (461-480).

If you know, it's not a problem, but to type tuté you need the " é " letter.  (ALT+ 0233).
But if you do not remember that alt code, there is no button/icon to click on for that letter underneath the text box.
Quick solution might be just to manually put in a hint with that alt code.

ah! Thanks for reminding me about that. I'll add the button now as soon as I can. Unless Tsyalatun does it before I do ;D
So just came back from the pub having had an excellent meal, and read this.... and added é to the course.  I've been debating about that one a bit as strictly there isn't a é in Na'vi, and it's only a possible representation of the different word stress.  I've been wondering whether we should also allow "tute" as a valid input for it as well.

Taronyu Leleioae

Quote from: Palulukan Maktoyu Ta'lengean on April 12, 2013, 12:49:37 AM
I'm typing this on a Windows Laptop with the Kxwerty turned off éééééééééééé  on the right side of the windows space bar is an ALT/GR button press that and the letter E and you will get é
(Tirea you told me about that ) tablets shouldn't have this issue as you longpress and select, same for most smartphones and as for tablets with keyboards, Android there is a few solutions to this if anyone wants to know. i'll go into it =)

It would actually be helpful to have an updated resources thread with these solutions.  Not only with Tirea's custom qwerty keyboard, but other solutions as well.  Have a list for various devices and OS platforms...

FYI.  I tried my Logitech BT keyboard, and can't get the é to work using the right ALT with E.  (Running XP Pro)  Plus I know that my older laptop does not have such an ALT key, nor my newer Dell netbook.  (Less keys for a smaller laptop.)  Then you have windows vs linux vs say, a new Chrome laptop.  I'll have to try my Win 7 Ent laptop to see if it works this way.

Haven't figured out the Android solution yet.  I did mention to Tirea via PM that there are a few minor bugs in the android soft keyboard hack app if he decides to update it in the future.  (Add the é to a function/shift button somewhere.)