Author Topic: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way  (Read 11614 times)

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #220 on: July 03, 2016, 09:33:08 am »
Course updated by words from last Naviteri post
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #221 on: July 03, 2016, 09:45:04 am »
Course updated by words from last Naviteri post

Irayo! Time to start learning the new words  :D
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #222 on: December 30, 2016, 01:36:26 pm »
Ma frapo,

Just a bit of food for thought …

Though I knew of the concept, I didn’t participate in memrise until now. I started a few courses just to see how they look. Quite impressive what you all achieved and a big irayo for all the time and effort you put into it.

I have some concerns though with the presentation of the material. It’s all fun and good that the vocab is there and ready for all who stumble over it and want to learn the language. But I also watch this from a learner’s perspective (and I mean somebody who doesn’t have prior knowledge of Na’vi, the grammar or grammatical lingo) and I see a few complications arise.

For example, in the “500 most frequently used words” a is defined as “clause-level attributive marker” – rightly so, because that’s how it appears in the dictionary. We—those of us who’ve been studying Na’vi for several years now—know what it means but from a zìma’uyu’s point of view? I doubt that they now know what that is.

And that’s a problem. Because it’s off-putting if even the learning material is so complicated that they won’t understand. It will drive people away.

I don’t know the potential of memrise, what is possible and what isn’t. What makes sense and what doesn’t. But is there a way to tweak the definitions in a more learner friendly form? Sure, a is an extreme example but it is prominent because it appears so much in Na’vi.

I hope you understand what I mean.

I don’t want to be disrespectful to anybody who worked on these. But I often hear complaints that there aren’t that many learners left or they start and don’t stick with it. If we want to use the time that we have until the second movie than this is one way to approach it. Trying to make the materials that we have more beginner friendly.

That’s all I wanted to say. Over and out ;)

Offline Nikalym

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #223 on: December 30, 2016, 02:29:00 pm »
Ma frapo,

Just a bit of food for thought …

Though I knew of the concept, I didn’t participate in memrise until now. I started a few courses just to see how they look. Quite impressive what you all achieved and a big irayo for all the time and effort you put into it.

I have some concerns though with the presentation of the material. It’s all fun and good that the vocab is there and ready for all who stumble over it and want to learn the language. But I also watch this from a learner’s perspective (and I mean somebody who doesn’t have prior knowledge of Na’vi, the grammar or grammatical lingo) and I see a few complications arise.

For example, in the “500 most frequently used words” a is defined as “clause-level attributive marker” – rightly so, because that’s how it appears in the dictionary. We—those of us who’ve been studying Na’vi for several years now—know what it means but from a zìma’uyu’s point of view? I doubt that they now know what that is.

And that’s a problem. Because it’s off-putting if even the learning material is so complicated that they won’t understand. It will drive people away.

I don’t know the potential of memrise, what is possible and what isn’t. What makes sense and what doesn’t. But is there a way to tweak the definitions in a more learner friendly form? Sure, a is an extreme example but it is prominent because it appears so much in Na’vi.

I hope you understand what I mean.

I don’t want to be disrespectful to anybody who worked on these. But I often hear complaints that there aren’t that many learners left or they start and don’t stick with it. If we want to use the time that we have until the second movie than this is one way to approach it. Trying to make the materials that we have more beginner friendly.

That’s all I wanted to say. Over and out ;)


Kaltxì ma frapo,
I know it would be a lot work but it would be cool to see something like "100 words to begin with" (or more) in memrise and a topic for it "how to use the memrise words" or something like that. :)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 03:40:45 pm by Nikalym »
Fun to say: 'Eoioa meoauniaeaoio oe 'ieia.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #224 on: January 01, 2017, 09:26:26 pm »
I wholeheartedly agree ma Plumps.

As you have noticed, this particular Memrise course has been created by means of pasting a TSV of our dictionary data into Memrise.

This issue stems from our dictionary (and should also be addressed there). And even there, I believe we may need some definition reform. But here's the thing... Some words in Na'vi have no meaning but have grammatical function. a is such a word. This word is often translated as "that/which"  in English. But there are also a LARGE number of words having the same typical English translation. (Mostly a fault of English and the versatility of "that")


How can we define such words that they would be both understood but also used correctly in a sentence..?

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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #225 on: January 02, 2017, 08:44:19 am »
a means 'that is' (notice the verb 'is'), or you can say 'particle used for attributing an adjective or a clause (to a noun)'.

Offline Wllìm

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #226 on: January 02, 2017, 12:55:38 pm »
I wholeheartedly agree ma Plumps.

As you have noticed, this particular Memrise course has been created by means of pasting a TSV of our dictionary data into Memrise.

This issue stems from our dictionary (and should also be addressed there). And even there, I believe we may need some definition reform. But here's the thing... Some words in Na'vi have no meaning but have grammatical function. a is such a word. This word is often translated as "that/which"  in English. But there are also a LARGE number of words having the same typical English translation. (Mostly a fault of English and the versatility of "that")


How can we define such words that they would be both understood but also used correctly in a sentence..?

I think this is a problem with any language that you want to learn. There are always grammatical words that cannot be translated in a straightforward manner. The most common approach I have seen is to just take a somewhat accurate but concise description as the English word (like that (subordinate clause marker) for a), and to clarify the exact meaning in the mems.

In the end, many of these grammatical words cannot be taught using Memrise alone. It is good to include them, just for completeness. But to learn how to use them, you'll have to consult a grammar course anyway.
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #227 on: January 02, 2017, 01:12:39 pm »
We need to write more homeworks or things that make people write.
Also, we should try duolingo.

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #228 on: January 02, 2017, 02:13:50 pm »
First of all, I'd like to point out, that this thread is related to All Na'vi vocabulary originally created by Tirea Aean and still maintained (by me). I don't know, whether other courses are maintained or not and whether their authors are still active.
Second - IMHO All Na'vi vocabulary has the same problem as you described, Plumps. Course is based on our (originally Taronyu's) dictionary and most definitions are written as published in dictionary, what often makes me curse. Good example is "that", which translates according context to various Na'vi words (fula, futa, furia....). That's why I rewrote some definitions, so student can better guess how to answer question (but I myself still fail, not seldom). Still there's space for improvements and I'm open for any suggestions.
However, as said already, some words is hard to translate and IMHO some very basic linguistic theory one must know - at least word classes, as same English word translates to Na'vi differently based on word class (or to not put infixes into noun or add case ending to adjective).

Quote
Also, we should try duolingo.
How it differs from memrise? Isn't that just another learning platform?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline archaic

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #229 on: January 02, 2017, 04:57:52 pm »
How about adding a modified example sentence, possibly something like this .....

Quote

irayo [i.ˈɾa.jo] n., intj. thank you, thanks. eg "I would just like to say a big irayo for all the hard work keeping the resources up to date."




Also, I would just like to say a big irayo for all the hard work keeping the resources up to date!
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Offline Toliman

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #230 on: January 02, 2017, 05:40:06 pm »
Quote
irayo [i.ˈɾa.jo] n., intj. thank you, thanks. eg "I would just like to say a big irayo for all the hard work keeping the resources up to date."

Also, I would just like to say a big irayo for all the hard work keeping the resources up to date!
Big irayo for this also from me :)

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #231 on: January 07, 2017, 03:57:51 pm »
How about adding a modified example sentence, possibly something like this .....

Quote

irayo [i.ˈɾa.jo] n., intj. thank you, thanks. eg "I would just like to say a big irayo for all the hard work keeping the resources up to date."

Also, I would just like to say a big irayo for all the hard work keeping the resources up to date!
Nìprrte' :)
You probably mean example sentence in our dictionary, srak? Because in memrise All Na'vi vocabulary aren't example sentences. If yes, you can report this request in dictionary thread.

And by the way - All Na'vi vocabulary course is up to date again.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #232 on: July 06, 2017, 07:42:53 am »
New words from Naviteri added - we are in sync now.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #233 on: July 06, 2017, 05:41:00 pm »
New words from Naviteri added - we are in sync now.

Woo! Txantsan! :D Irayo ma Blue Elf

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #234 on: July 08, 2017, 11:54:30 pm »
I found an interesting error in "All Na'vi Vocabulary" - when I am asked for "sibling" and type "tsmuktu", Memrise says that I did enter the English, not Na'vi. Tsmuk is accepted correctly.
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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #235 on: July 09, 2017, 06:08:33 am »
I found an interesting error in "All Na'vi Vocabulary" - when I am asked for "sibling" and type "tsmuktu", Memrise says that I did enter the English, not Na'vi. Tsmuk is accepted correctly.
Sadly, this error occurs on more words. Seems that some alternatives don't work correctly. I removed alternatives for tsmuk and tsmuktu to see if it helps. IIRC, Memrise can handle same English meanings as alternatives automatically. If you again meet this behaviour (no matter on which word), let me know - I'll try to contact support.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #236 on: October 11, 2017, 02:32:06 pm »
Vocabulary from September 30,  2017 Naviteri post added. Following posts will be processed later, as my time permits.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Learning Na'vi Vocabulary: The Easy Way
« Reply #237 on: October 20, 2017, 03:29:40 pm »
Vocabulary from September 30,  2017 Naviteri post added. Following posts will be processed later, as my time permits.
and now we are in sync again.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


 

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