Author Topic: Na'vi in a Nutshell  (Read 51448 times)

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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #220 on: December 22, 2010, 12:20:33 am »
AFAIK, kä is not transitive and thus cannot have tseng as a direct object.

Sran, and neither is "zene", so

also, is tsane a word?

Reduced from Tsaw-ne.  Remember what happens to the w when enclictic adpositions are tacked onto tsaw....

Still, though, the whole sentence would be better written without any case markings as Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng-ne a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #221 on: December 22, 2010, 12:27:20 am »
AFAIK, kä is not transitive and thus cannot have tseng as a direct object.

Sran, and neither is "zene", so

also, is tsane a word?

Reduced from Tsaw-ne.  Remember what happens to the w when enclictic adpositions are tacked onto tsaw....

Still, though, the whole sentence would be better written without any case markings as Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng-ne a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.



And thus my hopes of understanding the majority of this language have been fried.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #222 on: December 22, 2010, 12:31:23 am »
AFAIK, kä is not transitive and thus cannot have tseng as a direct object.

Sran, and neither is "zene", so

also, is tsane a word?

Reduced from Tsaw-ne.  Remember what happens to the w when enclictic adpositions are tacked onto tsaw....

Still, though, the whole sentence would be better written without any case markings as Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng-ne a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.



thats what i thought...


And thus my hopes of understanding the majority of this language have been fried.

why?

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #223 on: December 22, 2010, 12:35:59 am »
I do one thing, feel accomplished, and stumble upon a more complicated subject.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #224 on: December 22, 2010, 12:39:29 am »
I do one thing, feel accomplished, and stumble upon a more complicated subject.

yeah. I would be terrified of the day where that DOESNT happen. that means the language has died since there is no more to learn. D:

those things just make sense. its REALLY not complicated. the concept is really kinda simple. it just SEEMS complicated because of complicated terminology...

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #225 on: December 23, 2010, 01:02:35 am »
Quote
Still, though, the whole sentence would be better written without any case markings as Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng-ne a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.

Not only would it be better written, it would be correctly written, thanks for pointing out this error!

In accordance with LN7.3, I have decided that the sentence will now be

Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.


This way you can see how the ne- adposition is used in both circumstances.  This fix will be in v2.7, but since that update won't probably be for a little while, I wanted to post it here now.
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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #226 on: December 23, 2010, 01:06:03 am »
Quote
Still, though, the whole sentence would be better written without any case markings as Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng-ne a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.

Not only would it be better written, it would be correctly written, thanks for pointing out this error!

In accordance with LN7.3, I have decided that the sentence will now be

Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.


This way you can see how the ne- adposition is used in both circumstances.  This fix will be in v2.7, but since that update won't probably be for a little while, I wanted to post it here now.

i only see one -ne- in that sentence. but two in the quote.

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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #227 on: December 23, 2010, 01:19:06 am »
Quote
Still, though, the whole sentence would be better written without any case markings as Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng-ne a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.

Not only would it be better written, it would be correctly written, thanks for pointing out this error!

In accordance with LN7.3, I have decided that the sentence will now be

Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.


This way you can see how the ne- adposition is used in both circumstances.  This fix will be in v2.7, but since that update won't probably be for a little while, I wanted to post it here now.

i only see one -ne- in that sentence. but two in the quote.

Sran, my main objective was to move the "-ne" onto "tseng" and eliminate the "tsa-ne" (hence the strikeout).

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

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Offline Plumps

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #228 on: December 23, 2010, 08:03:02 pm »
Okay, I finally managed to update the German version and I noticed a few things:


Hope these comments help ;)

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #229 on: December 23, 2010, 09:15:41 pm »

In addition, I have drafted up some of my own revision comments (a few may be somewhat invalid, but I did check):


[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #230 on: December 23, 2010, 09:56:42 pm »

In addition, I have drafted up some of my own revision comments (a few may be somewhat invalid, but I did check):



made a few DESC notes within the quote.


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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #231 on: December 23, 2010, 10:04:47 pm »
Appendix A

Xri nga-ru lrrtok | Good luck with X

http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php/Canon/2010/March-June#Good_Luck.21[/url] --TA]Better written as "X-ri/ìri ngaru etrìpa syayvi"
In any case the topical could at least be fixed from Xri to X-ri/ìri.

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Offline Plumps

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #232 on: December 24, 2010, 04:33:24 am »
5.1.2

"Oe y<aly>om sre nga pähem trray."
→ Should be "Oe-l y<aly>om sre futa nga pähem trray." because "yom" is transitive.
With all due respect, that is the weirdest construction I’ve ever seen… We can use transitive verbs without a direct object. So, the mere statement ‘I ate’ and the complement ‘you came’ are connected with the conjunction ‘before’ … If we’d say ‘I ate when he came’ we wouldn’t use *oel yarmom krr futa po zama’u … right?

5.2

They must have gone to the river.  Fo-l ke tok fìtseng-it. Fo-l k<ol><ats>ä ne kilvan.

I don’t necessarily think so. It’s a perfect example that languages work in context.

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #233 on: December 24, 2010, 09:30:30 am »
I received the German translation of NiaN v2.6 from Plumps and have put it on the main site docs directory and linked it to the download page .

\o/


It's at http://www.learnnavi.org/docs/NaviKurzundBuendig_v2.6.pdf

 ta Markì

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #234 on: December 24, 2010, 01:25:34 pm »
Thank you so much, ma Markì!

I don't know which programme Neo uses but my file always comes out way too big ;)

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #235 on: December 25, 2010, 10:50:16 pm »
5.1.2

"Oe y<aly>om sre nga pähem trray."
→ Should be "Oe-l y<aly>om sre futa nga pähem trray." because "yom" is transitive.
With all due respect, that is the weirdest construction I’ve ever seen… We can use transitive verbs without a direct object. So, the mere statement ‘I ate’ and the complement ‘you came’ are connected with the conjunction ‘before’ … If we’d say ‘I ate when he came’ we wouldn’t use *oel yarmom krr futa po zama’u … right?

The focus here was to convey the meaning of <aly>, although your point is taken teri verb transitivity.  Maybe then use srekrr instead of sre, because the contextual usage seems weird otherwise.... unless something paralelling ngasre was intended.

5.2

They must have gone to the river.  Fo-l ke tok fìtseng-it. Fo-l k<ol><ats>ä ne kilvan.

I don’t necessarily think so. It’s a perfect example that languages work in context.

Maybe, but the indirect translation may confuse those beginners trying to learn from the sentences in NiaN.

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #236 on: December 27, 2010, 01:22:39 am »
    Wow, many things to double check now.  I'll address as much as I've gotten to below:

Okay, I finally managed to update the German version and I noticed a few things:

Hope these comments help ;)
[/quote]

I know there are more comments, and I'll address them when I get to them.  Thanks for the revisions!

Ma Plumps, for the pdf, I type up the document in ms word then use primopdf to convert it in the print menu.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 01:24:39 am by NeotrekkerZ »
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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #237 on: December 27, 2010, 01:39:58 am »
Quote
Still, though, the whole sentence would be better written without any case markings as Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng-ne a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.

Not only would it be better written, it would be correctly written, thanks for pointing out this error!

In accordance with LN7.3, I have decided that the sentence will now be

Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.


This way you can see how the ne- adposition is used in both circumstances.  This fix will be in v2.7, but since that update won't probably be for a little while, I wanted to post it here now.

i only see one -ne- in that sentence. but two in the quote.

Exactly right, you don't have to use it when the destination is after the verb.  That's the other circumstance.
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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #238 on: December 27, 2010, 01:45:24 am »
Quote
Still, though, the whole sentence would be better written without any case markings as Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng-ne a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.

Not only would it be better written, it would be correctly written, thanks for pointing out this error!

In accordance with LN7.3, I have decided that the sentence will now be

Zene nga k<iv>ä tseng a tsa-ne (nga) new k<iv>ä.


This way you can see how the ne- adposition is used in both circumstances.  This fix will be in v2.7, but since that update won't probably be for a little while, I wanted to post it here now.

i only see one -ne- in that sentence. but two in the quote.

Exactly right, you don't have to use it when the destination is after the verb.  That's the other circumstance.

oh YES. i DO remember that now. thanks for reminding me. --noted.

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Re: Na'vi in a Nutshell
« Reply #239 on: December 29, 2010, 08:36:46 am »
New Na'vi activity fun book (see that thread) is about to get under way. THAT MEANS I NEED HELP. Please respond or PM me. I want to see if anyone (outside the core clique) is still serious about learning Na'vi.

I need a few volunteers to help organize words and phrases.
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