Author Topic: Grammar tools (nouns, verbs, adjectives)  (Read 4604 times)

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Offline Wllìm

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Grammar tools (nouns, verbs, adjectives)
« on: August 06, 2014, 09:02:59 am »
I created a small tool where you can enter a noun, and get its declension (so, the forms of the noun in the different cases and numbers). It picks the correct suffixes based on the word ending (vowel / consonant / diphtong) and also handles lenition (for the plural forms). Hopefully also all exceptions are handled correctly (e.g. 'u does not allow short plural, and that kind of things ;)).

Although I tested for quite a while, it is quite likely that there are some errors left. If you find them, please let me know and I'll fix it :)
Edit: Oops, first error found and fixed already...

I could make other tools like this, if there is interest :D


Edit (2014-10-23): change the thread title to include also the verb and adjective tools
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 03:20:34 pm by Wllìm »
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 05:02:30 pm »
Quite interesting! :D

I tested a few words (the common ones) and I noticed that in words with ’e- it is a bit confusing because basically the plural prefixes merge with the word, e.g. me+ ’etnaw > metnaw

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 06:27:11 pm »
Really cool! Nicely styled.

In to say what Plums said.

same goes for

me+ 'eylan > meylan

and

pxe+ 'eylan > pxeylan

What other really cool things are hosted on http://wimiso.nl/navi ? :D (besides kaltxì and a smiley face HRH)

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2014, 12:54:14 am »
WOU :D
+1 and added to the Links to useful learning materials - II
This reminds me on that pronoun guide I did. ;D

What other really cool things are hosted on http://wimiso.nl/navi ? :D (besides kaltxì and a smiley face HRH)
^

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 06:24:38 am »
Irayo nìtxan ma pxesmuk :)

I tested a few words (the common ones) and I noticed that in words with ’e- it is a bit confusing because basically the plural prefixes merge with the word, e.g. me+ ’etnaw > metnaw
+1 for finding it! That should be fixed now, thank you! :D

What other really cool things are hosted on http://wimiso.nl/navi ? :D (besides kaltxì and a smiley face HRH)
HRH, you discovered it ;D Not that much yet; the KDE nìNa'vi files are there, and some random stuff, mostly images I needed to host somewhere :P

Edit: And also fixed another stupid bug where words on -o and -u would still get -yä in the genitive.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 06:31:20 am by Wllìm »
Stress practiceNoun declensionsVerb infixes •  Weather forecasts in Na'viKDE nìNa'viMy Na'vi blog
Seykxel sì nitram! Ngal rolun fì'upxaret aketsuktse'a! :D

Offline Eana Unil

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 09:41:30 am »
Very helpful tool :) +1 for that!

Offline Wllìm

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Re: Noun (and verb ;) ) declension tool
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 01:43:17 pm »
Irayo ma Eana Unil! :)

Today, I felt like doing some more coding and I made a similar tool for verb infixes; it is available here. :) It is a bit more complicated than the tool for nouns because there are so many possibilities to place the infixes, but I still hope that it is useful. ;)
Stress practiceNoun declensionsVerb infixes •  Weather forecasts in Na'viKDE nìNa'viMy Na'vi blog
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 02:11:06 pm »
NICE! :D
win säp..i <3 ;D

<asy> and <ìsy>? :)

----
And probably this (yeah, I know, it's becomming complicated) :S
<ìrm>, <arm>, <ìry>, <ary>, <ìlm>, <alm>, <ìly>, <aly>
and some with <iv> + <time combination>

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2014, 02:16:59 pm »
<asy> and <ìsy>? :)
They are possible already, just click Near future or Future in the Tense row, and then Future with intent in the Intent row. :)

And probably this (yeah, I know, it's becomming complicated) :S
<ìrm>, <arm>, <ìry>, <ary>, <ìlm>, <alm>, <ìly>, <aly>
and some with <iv> + <time combination>

They are in the tool too :D For example fill in t.ar.on in the field, and click Imperfective and Near past. Then you get t-ìrm-aron ;D

At least, if everything works as it should. HRH!
Stress practiceNoun declensionsVerb infixes •  Weather forecasts in Na'viKDE nìNa'viMy Na'vi blog
Seykxel sì nitram! Ngal rolun fì'upxaret aketsuktse'a! :D

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2014, 04:55:45 pm »
'ä'... oe kakrela skxawng... :-[

At least, if everything works as it should. HRH!
Yeah, I played with it, and it works NICE! Txantsana tìkangkem!

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2014, 07:59:27 pm »
Nice!

The only danger is, the user might not know the correct infix locations and so may end up with an incorrect result. But if you do know where they go, this new infix thing works great!


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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2014, 08:45:32 pm »
Nice tool! Although Tirea Aean is correct for the long term, for learning, this is fantastic!

Karma +1

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 06:07:44 am »
Irayo nìtxan, ma smuk :D

The only danger is, the user might not know the correct infix locations and so may end up with an incorrect result. But if you do know where they go, this new infix thing works great!
I could include a small database of verbs with their infix positions, so you don't have to enter them yourself... :-\

Edit: I have a working prototype now, but I still need the infix database. I just need a simple JSON file like this:
Code: [Select]
{
    "kä": "k..ä",
    "kame": "k.am.e",
    "lu": "l..u",
    "si": "s..i",
    "taron": "t.ar.on",
    "tìng": "t..ìng",
    "yomtìng": "yomt..ìng"
}
Is there an easy way to get such a file?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 07:28:02 am by Wllìm »
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Seykxel sì nitram! Ngal rolun fì'upxaret aketsuktse'a! :D

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2014, 09:29:35 am »
There was not somewhere a sql file with all the infix positions of the verbs by the dictionary? Probably TA has such a file which he used for that Vrrtep CLI. :-\

Edit:
...a database from the official Eana Eltu Database

Edit2:
You already found it. HRH!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 01:07:11 pm by Tìtstewan »

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2014, 01:49:44 pm »
The improvement is ready (with thanks to Tìtstewan, who pointed me to the SQL data file I needed): you don't have to type the infix positions anymore. Just type in the root form of the verb, and the tool will find the correct infix positions itself from the database. :D

By the way, if the tool doesn't know a verb for any reason, you still have the option to indicate the infix positions yourself. You can also ignore the database entry by just typing in the dots, so if you want to experiment with incorrect infix positions such as tar..on, that is still possible ;)
Stress practiceNoun declensionsVerb infixes •  Weather forecasts in Na'viKDE nìNa'viMy Na'vi blog
Seykxel sì nitram! Ngal rolun fì'upxaret aketsuktse'a! :D

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2014, 11:52:37 pm »
The improvement is ready (with thanks to Tìtstewan, who pointed me to the SQL data file I needed): you don't have to type the infix positions anymore. Just type in the root form of the verb, and the tool will find the correct infix positions itself from the database. :D

By the way, if the tool doesn't know a verb for any reason, you still have the option to indicate the infix positions yourself. You can also ignore the database entry by just typing in the dots, so if you want to experiment with incorrect infix positions such as tar..on, that is still possible ;)

Awesome! +1 for this.

I wonder... maybe this verb thingy should have its own thread independent from Noun declension thingy? Thoughts?

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2014, 04:48:13 am »
I wonder... maybe this verb thingy should have its own thread independent from Noun declension thingy? Thoughts?

I can make a separate thread, or I could edit the thread's title and the first post to include both tools, if you prefer that :)

By the way: can I report omissions in NaviData.sql somewhere? There are a few words that seem to not have infix data in the infixes column. For example for rengop the infixes column contains just "rengop" instead of "reng<1><2><3>op".
All words for which this happens: fyel, fyep, kxem, ley, nrr, pxek, rengop, slan, srer, sweylu, tsyìl, txay.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 04:59:54 am by Wllìm »
Stress practiceNoun declensionsVerb infixes •  Weather forecasts in Na'viKDE nìNa'viMy Na'vi blog
Seykxel sì nitram! Ngal rolun fì'upxaret aketsuktse'a! :D

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2014, 05:04:03 am »
I would just change the thread's title. :)
Maybe a page with the pronoun stuff* or adjectives*?

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Noun declension tool
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2014, 05:20:33 am »
Maybe a page with the pronoun stuff* or adjectives*?
Pronouns: I was planning on putting the pronouns into the noun tool. So if you would enter nga for example, it would just give the correct declension. This is indeed quite difficult however, since there are so many exceptions :-\

Adjectives: I'm not sure how useful this would be because it's so easy, but I'll add a page for that for completeness ;)
Stress practiceNoun declensionsVerb infixes •  Weather forecasts in Na'viKDE nìNa'viMy Na'vi blog
Seykxel sì nitram! Ngal rolun fì'upxaret aketsuktse'a! :D

 

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